Inverter wiring for 2022 Micro Minnie 2108FBS

Pablito · 12-25-2022, 05:00 PM

Hi all

I bought a 2022 FBS2108 last Fall and I was a little disappointed to learn that it doesn't come with an inverter. I am planning to install a 2000W Xantrex Freedom inverter. It has a built-in transfer switch to make the shore power/inverter transfer wiring easier. The purpose of installing this machine is to feed the 115VAC outlets for a screen TV, espresso machine, etc.
I researched the threads on this site to see if someone here had installed an inverter and couldn't find any information on how to access the AC panel.
My camper is in storage until Spring, and I have a couple of questions:

- If I remember correctly the floor on the outside is insulated. Can I run wires from the inverter (installed in the storage bay) to the AC panel from underneath?

- Is there an easier way to run AC wires from the inverter to the AC panel?

Thanks in advance for the support.

Pablo

Fred 2106DS · 12-25-2022, 09:23 PM

Pablo, here's a link to how I ran my inverter wiring from the pass-through back to the AC panel. I have upgraded my inverter to a 2000w and the 14 AWG wiring to 10 AWG since posting that link.

You may also want to search for Marine359's posts for his Xantrex XC2000 install. Jim used a 30 amp shore power cord to make his run from the inverter to the AC panel.

Fred

Marine359 · 12-26-2022, 10:49 AM

Hi Pablito,
I did exactly what you want to do. Install a 2000w Xantrex FreedomXC in the pass thru. I advise you screw a 3/4” ply board to the pass through bulkhead to provide secure mounting for all your components. Nice choice on buying a hybrid, as this will give you the capability to do high speed (high amperage) battery charging should you elect to upgrade to LiFePo4 batteries.

I should have drawn a wiring diagram because it’s been 2 years, and I’ve forgotten some connections. But the ac side is pretty simple. As Fred noted, you run the wires through the floor of the pass thru as near as possible to the frame rail. You can use conduit as Fred did, or buy a 30ft 30amp shore power cable and cut it in half. Then run the cables along the frame rail/propane line, and then back up into the trailer under the sink. From there it’s a short run to the distribution panel. Remove the OEM charger connection from the panel, as the ac from your Xantrex will now be connected to SP. When you run the cables, don’t forget to run the wire for the remote Bluetooth panel through the same holes. When you bring in the remote wire, you can run it forward to the entryway (where I mounted) or if desired, up through the cabinets to mount near the switches that are there.

The dc side is a bit more complicated, as you need to reroute wiring from battery box back up through the loom which goes to the disconnect switch. I chose to Re wire the frame mounted junction box such that my the slide and jack wiring can be disconnected. Fred posted an annotated photo of the junction box. It’s also important that you use cable at least as thick as 1/0 between inverter and battery. Some say to use 2/0, but Xantrex told me 1/0 was safe for this inverter. It will also be simpler if you use bus bars to make the connection between inverter and battery, so it becomes simple to connect a smart shunt monitor, loads, and ground. I then run 6awg from bus bars to a marine spade fuse block which services the fusing for my two solar charge controllers, and some additional 12v/usb outlets. I also chose to add a dedicated disconnect for the inverter. This allows me to eliminate inverter standby draw when boondocking by just removing the inverter from the dc circuit.

In any case Fred is your most valuable resource. He pretty much walked me through my install. Take a look at the photos in my “mods & upgrades album”. It might help a bit.

Marine359 · 12-26-2022, 10:59 AM

Forgot something Pablito,
You can choose to isolate the rooftop A/C by adding another breaker for it at the panel. I chose not to do that. All ac serviced by inverter. The downside is that if you’re on shore power or generator to run the A/C and forget to turn off the A/C when you disconnect SP, if you have installed an Easy (soft) Start, the Xantrex will pick up the load from the A/C and will actually run it until it depletes your battery. I’ve done it twice, hopped into my truck, hit the road, and oops: dead battery on arrival.

Pablito · 12-26-2022, 05:27 PM

Fred/Jim

Thank you for your invaluable input and help. Please see attached. Am I correct in assuming that the attached sketch shows the basic wiring of the AC and DC sides of the set up?
In other words, all I am doing is adding the inverter in line between the shore power plug and the AC panel and bringing 12DCV from the battery to the inverter.

Marine359 · 12-26-2022, 06:29 PM

If you’re installing a 2000 Freedom XC, the converter goes bye bye. You can physically leave it in there, but it must be disconnected from the panel. It’s no longer needed or wanted. The Xantrex does the charging, and it’s ac is connected directly to the panel.

Fred 2106DS · 12-26-2022, 07:28 PM

I also disconnected the converter side of the WFCO Power Center since I’m using stand alone lithium battery chargers in the pass-through.

Originally, I just disconnected the AC power to the converter and capped off the wires with wire nuts, as seen in the first picture below. I did it that way because in my Micro Minnie the refrigerator was connected to the same 15 amp breaker as the converter.

Earlier this year, I replaced that single 15 amp breaker with a double 15 amp breaker and reconnected the converter to the panel on own and just leave that breaker turned off, as seen in the second picture below.

Fred 2106DS · 12-26-2022, 07:51 PM

Pablo, Your drawing is correct. I just realized you must be using the Freedom X 2000 and not the Freedom XC 2000.

Pablito · 12-26-2022, 09:34 PM

Thank you, guys!
I am still thinking whether to buy the inverter with the charger built in or just the inverter...... but either way I do get the picture. My wiring sketch is correct, and I will adjust it depending on what model I decide to buy.
Do you guys see any reason to get the XC instead of the X?
I will try to document my project and post it for the benefit of others in this community.

Marine359 · 12-27-2022, 06:35 AM

I too thought you were referring to the XC2000. Sorry, and yes, as Fred said, your drawing is correct for the X2000, but would have to be modified for the XC. The biggest advantage of the XC is its battery charging capability. If you have a large battery bank of FLA, the XC does a much better job and faster job of charging than the stock WFCO. If you are even thinking about upgrading to LiFePo4 in the future, pay the small amount extra for the XC now. It can charge at up to 80amps, which will take a 200w LFP from zero to 100% SOC in 2.5 hours. The XC cost less than $100 more then the X.

Pablito · 12-27-2022, 08:38 AM

Jim/Fred

Thanks again. Seems that the XC is the way to go.
Please see attached of what I think my wiring should look like now without the OEM converter in service.
Thank you for all your help. I will report in the Spring when I get this project done.

Marine359 · 12-27-2022, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pablito

Jim/Fred

Thanks again. Seems that the XC is the way to go.
Please see attached of what I think my wiring should look like now without the OEM converter in service.
Thank you for all your help. I will report in the Spring when I get this project done.

Diagram almost correct. You do have to make a connection on the ac side of the panel in order to service ac loads. As I mentioned earlier, you can service all ac loads, or put the roof A/C on its own breaker. Easier to just do all, but disadvantage is the possibility of forgetting to turn off thermostat when disconnecting from SP. Good luck with the install.

**creativepart** · 12-27-2022, 10:57 AM

I agree on deleting the Converter entirely and going with an Inverter/Charger. Not only will you get a much better Lithium battery charging profile, but you won't have to be concerned about the converter charging the batteries with inverted power from those same batteries. Which would have been an issue if you're wiring the inverter output upstream of the converter as your diagram shows.

Fred 2106DS · 12-27-2022, 03:40 PM

Hi Pablo,

Hope you don't mind, but I took the liberty and redrew your XC wiring diagram and added labels for existing and new wiring and also to show the disconnected converter. Hope this helps.

Fred

Marine359 · 12-28-2022, 10:37 AM

There is not total agreement on wire sizing across the industry, including amongst manufacturers of inverters, solar companies, and wire suppliers. The ampacity charts are clear: 2/0 wire can carry 175 amps, while 1/0 wire can carry 150 amps. For a 2000w inverter, Most on the forums recommend 2/0, and some say 1/0 is sufficient. Then it would seem logical that the minimum wire size for a 2,000w inverter should be 2/0. Not so fast. That is the logical answer if you are sizing for maximum inverter output which is 166 amps for a 2000w inverter. However, wire can also be safely sized for maximum load. That is to say, what is the maximum load you plan to put on your inverter? Remembering that when connected to Shore Power, the Xantrex XC2000 can pass through 30 amps of ac power, in which case the dc wiring ampacity does not come into play. dc wire ampacity is only in play when there is a dc load, or an inverted ac load. Since I would never use the full output of my Xantrex when not connected to SP (boondocking), I decided to do a likely load calculation, and then ask Xantrex whether 1/0 would work for me. They said yes, as long as the round trip cable run from inverter to battery was less than 10ft, and as long as the load did not exceed 150 amps. With that confidence, I chose 1/0 instead of 2/0 cable. Obviously 2/0 is the best answer, but I’m fine with the fact that 1/0 is good enough. But why quibble? First because 2/0 in custom pre manufactured lenghts with custom terminals cost almost twice as much as 2/0. Second, because 2/0 is very hard to install (bend) on very short runs to bus bars. But, best to trust your own instincts. I’m not an expert. In my case, I will never exceed 150 amps (1,800 watts) of dc load when I’m not connected to 30 amp SP. When running the inverter off my 15amp max output generator, or a 15 amp household connection, I simply turn the Xantrex charging circuit down to 20 amps to leave room for running the roof A/C if needed. For everything else, it’s simply a matter of being conscious of loads in use. It’s possible to overload even 2/0 wire if your Xantrex is operating in surge mode. So it’s just a matter of deciding how you’re planning to use the inverter on what loads you may put on it. Here’s a chart I made for load estimating. You may find it useful.

Marine359 · 12-28-2022, 05:54 PM

Sorry spreadsheet didn’t upload properly.
Here it is with all columns.

Fred 2106DS · 12-29-2022, 09:38 AM

Jim, I based the minimum battery wiring size in my diagram off the recommended minimum size for one way runs up to 5 feet as stated in the XC's manual.

I agree, smaller battery wiring properly fused can be installed if the run length and maximum wattage need is known, that decision is on the individual owner.

Though, in the future if an increase in the battery wire size is required due to an increase in the maximum wattage being used, then the owner will need to pony up again.

Marine359 · 12-29-2022, 10:41 AM

You are totally correct Fred.

thataway4 · 01-01-2023, 11:12 PM

I believe that battery capacity should be part of the planning phase, plus a 12 volt disconnect switch very close to the batteries/inverter. The minimum I have used for any inverter system is a battery capacity of Flooded lead batteries--is about 400 amp hours, which gives usable 200 amp hours. For LiFePO4, I have used two 100 amp batteries (gives a usable amount of 180 amp hours available.