Location of Stock Charging Unit 2019 2106 DS

[Goodspike]

The title says it all, except the reason I'm asking. My trailer is in storage right now, so it's not easy to look at it.

I'm wondering if it's under the refrigerator near the circuit breaker box, or some other location.

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

I'm wondering if it's under the refrigerator near the circuit breaker box, or some other location.

Generally - most of the time - the Converter/Charger is a one piece item that houses the 110v AC circuit breakers AND the 12v fuses (or breakers). So, normally you'll find those usually housed in a plastic holder with a plastic door on the front and installed under a fridge, under a bed or sometimes in a sidewall.

The charger is usually behind or below the circuits but it's usually a one box solution.

I don't know the details on your RV, but in my experience when you find the breakers and fuses you have also found the charger.

[Fred 2106DS]

Goodspike, In my 2016 2106DS the converter/charger/AC/DC circuits is one unit as "creativepart" describes and is located under the refrigerator.

[Goodspike]

Thank you both. The reason I was asking is I was considering getting a hybrid inverter, which would replace the charger. If that's integrated into the fuses that could be problematic. I'll need to look for threads on upgrading the charger, because I've seen that discussed.

From memory, I do have something that looks a lot like what Creativepart posted, and as I recall it's under the refrigerator.

[creativepart]

You can probably disconnect the charger portion or turn it off. BUT you'd likely have to rewire some things to merge the two systems for A/C and DC service. Above my pay-grade and education level.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by creativepart

You can probably disconnect the charger portion or turn it off. BUT you'd likely have to rewire some things to merge the two systems for A/C and DC service. Above my pay-grade and education level.

Right. Before knowing they were integrated I was viewing this as being an easier install than the smart power supply and inverter install that you mentioned in another thread. I may have to reassess when I can get to the trailer and look at it.

[creativepart]

The practical solution to what you want is the use of a portable generator. And, probably to carry two that are able to be paired. It's a minor hassle. It's affordable. It's well proven. It's resellable in the future.

When we had a 25' Arctic Fox we carried two Honda 2000i gens (It was before the larger models under 3000w were available.). They were in the back of the Tow Vehicle.

About 60% of the time, one was all we needed. In hot weather to power the AC and other appliances we would pull out the 2nd gen, pair it with the first and have 4000w of A/C available.

Two Honda's were not very loud together or in single. They were super reliable, needing only for us to fill them with gas. We used them for 10 years and sold them for 60% of their original purchase cost. ($1,600 for two, sold them both for $1000). So, they cost us $60 a year to own.

I get wanting to use the latest tech to do away with the noise and weight and gasoline. But at some point practicality needs to set in.

Look at it this way, maybe things will change in the future and you can always change course and sell the gens for near what you paid for them.

[Goodspike]

It's more the weight and space of the second generator I want to avoid. Cost it would be cheaper even with Honda generators. And larger single generators are too heavy.

Also, I'd actually prefer to not have an inverter, but if the inverter could warm up my coffee in the morning that would be a major plus! Starting a generator for a two minute run is not ideal.

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

Also, I'd actually prefer to not have an inverter, but if the inverter could warm up my coffee in the morning that would be a major plus! Starting a generator for a two minute run is not ideal.

You can get a 2000w inverter for between $350 to $500. Install it yourself and heat your coffee.

But wait, what about batteries? You need to have two if you only have one. And, it would be best to have about 200 aH of battery storage (100ah usable). And, you will need to run the genset some amount of time each day to recharge the batteries, even if you have 300+ watts of solar. And, you need to probably upgrade your converter/charger to shorten the time it will take to recharge those batteries.

That's all you need to heat your coffee. And, you might be able to run the microwave for a minute or less if the batteries are fully charged up.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by creativepart

You can get a 2000w inverter for between $350 to $500. Install it yourself and heat your coffee.

But wait, what about batteries? You need to have two if you only have one. And, it would be best to have about 200 aH of battery storage (100ah usable). And, you will need to run the genset some amount of time each day to recharge the batteries, even if you have 300+ watts of solar. And, you need to probably upgrade your converter/charger to shorten the time it will take to recharge those batteries.

That's all you need to heat your coffee. And, you might be able to run the microwave for a minute or less if the batteries are fully charged up.

Yes, but an ordinary inverter wouldn't take care of my small generator issue, which is my primary concern. I wouldn't do an inverter just to get 110 power otherwise. I do have 2 12 volt batteries on the trailer. They should be able to provide the short surge time I need for the AC startup, and then after that the hybrid inverter would probably recharge the batteries. Hopefully I wouldn't need to leave the AC off to charge them.

I hadn't thought about the recharge time, but sort of assumed the hybrid inverter would do it better. I noted they claimed to be "more efficient" and designed to charge different types of batteries.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by creativepart

The practical solution to what you want is the use of a portable generator. And, probably to carry two that are able to be paired. It's a minor hassle. It's affordable. It's well proven. It's resellable in the future.

Creativepart, you'll be happy to know I'm taking this advice. Seems like the least hassle, and with only two batteries it seems like inverter use would be very limited. And in any case since I like more primitive camp sites at state parks, a generator would be necessary in any event.

A question for the group though. Does anyone know the likely charge applied to batteries by the 2106's charging system? I'm trying to determine how much running a generator an hour would accomplish.

[Morich]

Not much change in one hour per this chart:

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Morich

Not much change in one hour per this chart:

Is that specific to the Micro Minnie system or just a certain type of battery?

What I'm trying to determine is whether it would make more sense to invest in a separate large charger and somehow disconnect the batteries and charge them directly.

[Morich]

I think it is just pretty much batteries in general and likely somewhat slanted as most info is when it comes from those who "just happen" to sell things involved. The chart came from this :
https://batteryuniversity.com/
That's where we have to look for lots of different info from different sources as there is no longer any real attempt to stick to the truth or avoid the stigma that used to be attached to lying about your product. So it doesn't take long to run across ads or info that tells us one or another system or type of product is so much more advanced that we should all move to buying their product as it is SO much better!
There are advances made but often not as quickly as ads would have us believe. Since battery use and recharge is a chemical reaction, it does take some time to get major advances and many ads are overblown on what they are actually doing, so it pays to be a bit skeptical and review several different sources before we believe things we read or hear about. Electric vehicle tech IS making some big advances on powering cars but it is not down to RV use as far as I know.
When one charging system tells us it is "more efficient" we need more info to actually judge if that is a worthwhile thing to chase. It is true that a solid stage charger can be termed more efficient as there is less wasted energy due to heat loss but that doesn't actually mean it charges the battery any better!
Things may be better or it may just be a better ad, so I have to have lots more info to tell if it is worth buying the product.
But there will be advancements made and those will be built into the more expensive RV at some point but I don't see it yet.
Progress comes slowly.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Morich

I think it is just pretty much batteries in general and likely somewhat slanted as most info is when it comes from those who "just happen" to sell things involved. The chart came from this :
https://batteryuniversity.com/

I like that link--particularly this article.

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/...on_or_laziness

(Not a fan of wireless charging.)

But my issue is a bit simpler. I'm trying to determine what maximum rate the 2106DS's system purports to charge the batteries at. If it's below 20 amp I think I'd probably prefer to disconnect the batteries and charge them with a separate charger if using a generator for power.

[Goodspike]

I went back to the manual--I didn't think it covered this issue, but it does. It's apparently a 6 amp charger, so by getting a 30 amp charger I'd reduce the time by 5 times!

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

I went back to the manual--I didn't think it covered this issue, but it does. It's apparently a 6 amp charger, so by getting a 30 amp charger I'd reduce the time by 5 times!

Yes, but... you’ll need two gens paired to provide 30amp charging and you will not be able to run any other AC appliance during that time.

It’s your converter that charges your batteries and WBGO doesn’t splurge on the best converter for its TTs.

Rather than hassle with a separate charger find the model number of your converter and then research better models with more powerful and more efficient charging capabilities. Sometimes a newer, slightly more expensive converter can make a world if difference.

PS. Lead Acid batteries can only accept a high charge current for a short time. If you had Lithium batteries, which you don’t, you can charge them at a high rate continuously. So your 30-amp charger idea has some serious drawbacks.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by creativepart

Yes, but... you’ll need two gens paired to provide 30amp charging and you will not be able to run any other AC appliance during that time.

I'm talking about 30 amps at 12 (or 14.5) volts, not 30 amps of 120 volt power. I suspect a 1000 watt generator would power that.

Rather than hassle with a separate charger find the model number of your converter and then research better models with more powerful and more efficient charging capabilities. Sometimes a newer, slightly more expensive converter can make a world if difference.

Thank you--I'll look into that.

PS. Lead Acid batteries can only accept a high charge current for a short time. If you had Lithium batteries, which you don’t, you can charge them at a high rate continuously. So your 30-amp charger idea has some serious drawbacks.

It would only be 15 amps per battery, and also I think most chargers adjust to conditions.

[Old Navy]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

Creativepart, you'll be happy to know I'm taking this advice. Seems like the least hassle, and with only two batteries it seems like inverter use would be very limited. And in any case since I like more primitive camp sites at state parks, a generator would be necessary in any event.

A question for the group though. Does anyone know the likely charge applied to batteries by the 2106's charging system? I'm trying to determine how much running a generator an hour would accomplish.

I also ended up following a similar path as creativepart suggested above. Honda's were a little spendy, so I have 2 Champion 2000w gens. I also replaced the group 24 battery with 6V golf cart batts, and added a 200W "suitcase" solar system that can pretty much replace the generator when I don't need air conditioning. I'm skipping an inverter for now, but if I ever increase battery storage I might add one. Even then, I probably won't tie it in to my trailer's electrical system.

Assuming your Micro uses the same power system as my Minnie (WFCO WF-8955), it has a 3 stage 55 amp charging system, though it will probably never provide close to 55 amps to the battery. You might get about 20-25 ah into your batts in an hour. Maybe. Efficiency goes down as your battery approaches full charge, and it can take a long time to get the last 10-20%. Some people never reach 100% until they get home and plug in. The WFCO power centers don't have a great reputation as chargers, and the only way to know how much current you are actually pushing to the batteries is to measure. An inexpensive battery monitor can track voltage and charge state as well as current in and out.

[Goodspike]

Old Navy, thank you, very useful. I have a Champion 2500 watt gen, which is basically the same as yours but with additional surge. I haven't gone to solar yet, if ever.

I'm not sure that WFCO is the same as my unit. I think my door opens differently. But does changing these out require changing out the 120 volt portion too, or can you just deactivate the 12 volt portion and add in a new device that is just a 12 volt converter/charger?

And thank you for the battery monitor suggestion. I'd been considering getting one of those to monitor state of charge, but I hadn't thought about it for rate of charging!