Micro Minnie 2108 - damage from freezing?

[Dashunde]

I'm in the Twin Falls area and we're headed out Saturday for a quick overnight.
Tonight (tomorrow am) its getting down to 34F for an hour or so around 5am, then Friday night its getting down to 32F around 5am. Sat/Sun it'll be near freezing again but we'll be in it with the heat on.
Then it'll warm up a bit for the next few days and its getting full winterization on Wednesday.

Its our first year owning it, so my questions are centered around how vulnerable these trailers really are to cracking, and what are some tips to side-stepping damage without full winterization?

Sitting stationary right at 32F, with empty tanks, drained hot water, and air in most of the lines will it be fine for a couple of hours each night close to or slightly below freezing?

Do the 2108's have anything that's particularly vulnerable to freezing?

Are they more tolerant of freezing with air in the lines?
(ie pump run with empty fresh tank, faucet valves open, etc)

Any recommendations for squeezing past a few borderline nights?

Thanks!

[creativepart]

I've only been RVing 20 years, and I done so all over the rockies and up into Canada. I always tell folks that your RV doesn't "freeze" because the outside temps are around 32 degrees.

It takes multiple days and nights of temps below 30 degrees to really start to get things cold. And, with you heating the inside and running water there is no way a night of freezing temps in your RV will be cold enough to freeze tanks and pipes. Water hoses... sure, but not your 5,000 lb mass of a travel trailer.

I've been in Twin Falls in the Winter and it's extremely cold. But no way a couple of days of near freezing to light freezing is going to be an issue.

One more thing, I've posted my experience and opinions about this many, many times and there are always folks that respond to not risk it. They say to winterize immediately even if it's only one day. And to prove their point they explain that they've never had a problem by winterizing for any 32 degree condition. Of course, they'd never have a problem if they didn't winterize either, but they don't know that.

So, you'll have to do as you see fit.

[MicroMinnie]

I second that, don’t worry about anything freezing solid in an RV until you hit below 30F for a week solid.

Daytime sunlight always keeps an entire trailer well above freezing for the whole night and more.

[be happy]

As others have said really no need to worry about a weekend out with the temps you are talking about.

Keep using the camper as if it was summer and enjoy the fall. You might see the fresh water hose from spigot to camper become somewhat frozen in early morning hours.

Good Luck and enjoy the moment

[Dashunde]

I think I could have made my question more clear... Will these trailers get damaged at 29F just sitting in the driveway not in use with a mix of air/water from the last trip throughout the fresh and grey lines?

[eatSleepWoof]

Originally Posted by Dashunde

I think I could have made my question more clear... Will these trailers get damaged at 29F just sitting in the driveway not in use with a mix of air/water from the last trip throughout the fresh and grey lines?

Yes, no, maybe. There are many factors at play, from length of time it's sitting, to how long the 29F temperature lasts, to where exactly there's remaining water and how much of it.

You got great advice above.

If it's sitting for a couple days and daytime temps will be above freezing, you won't have any issues. If daytime temps do not go above freezing and it's sitting for prolonged periods of time, there's a good chance leftover water somewhere in those pipes/appliances will freeze and damage its surroundings.

[be happy]

Yes Yes Yes

Its not worth the gamble of leaving water in the lines. You may get lucky by just draining the fresh water lines, but then again is it worth the gamble. If the temps. stay below freezing things will happen. Just last night here in Branson morning temp was 38 and water in outdoor dog bowl was starting to freeze.

Good Luck

[Marine359]

While using your trailer in sub-freezing temps, common sense pre-cautions will prevent freeze damage, such as opening lower cabinet doors, and disconnecting fresh water hose. During storage, it’s important to thoroughly blow out lines, or pump them full of anti freeze. A couple days not in use with ambients near freezing or slightly below won’t be an issue for the lines. Tanks have way too much thermal mass to worry about freezing in all but sustained ambients well below freezing.

[Morich]

A factor to consider is how well the forecast may meet for the exact spot you are in at any given time. Here in my area the forecast temperature and weather is not as accurate as I would like and I did some looking at why that is true.
The weather for my little spot is from a water treatment plant and that means it is not where I have my house. Treatment plants, by nature, are often near creeks and that is often a low spot! Water tends to run downhill! DUH!
So cold air also runs downhill and collects in the lower spaces if the wind is not blowing.
If our RV is down in a valley, the temp may drop 10-15 degrees colder than the predicted temp for any given town nearby. This is especially true if the forecast is for a larger metro area and changes depending how much wind there is to stir the air!
How much you trust the forecast to be correct for where your RV is at the time is something we each have to deal with and decide how much to gamble.

I do not favor staying awake at night wondering if I got it right! Nor do I ever want to do repairs because I got it wrong!

[Camper1]

All great cold weather advice from good folks with real life camping/boondocking experiences! it's very difficult, if not impossible to find a truly 4-Season RV, to where you never have to worry about freezing temps.

Early next month, we are boondocking at 6,000' in the mountains of Eastern Oregon in our 2108 TB for 8 or 9 days. We are expecting temps to get down around zero or lower overnight. To prep for this, I've added insulation under the sink, around the water pump and on the back wall, as well as insulation under the bathroom sink. Also, I slit pool noodles and put them around some of the water lines under the cabinets inside the RV.

I upgraded to two 30 LB propane tanks (from the stock 20 Lb tanks) and plan on keeping the furnace on low temps. I'm bringing four 20 LB tanks with me, because if the propane runs out, all bets are off! I also purchased a 3 speed battery operated fan, to place by the furnace outlet to help with air flow, and plan on keeping lower cabinet doors open.

Underneath, I filled the many gaps I found with spray foam, and slit pool noodles again and wrapped and taped the low point drains, and the fresh water tank drain. I also disconnected the outside shower wand/head and drained what little water was in those lines.

I was thinking about it, but haven't done it, to remove the trim over the water lines behind the toilet and try and insulate those. Hmmm.

I have 380 Watts of solar and two, 100 Ah Victron Lithium batteries. I'll let you know how smoothly (or not) it goes. Wish me luck!

[Dashunde]

Originally Posted by Camper1

Early next month, we are boondocking at 6,000' in the mountains of Eastern Oregon in our 2108 TB for 8 or 9 days. We are expecting temps to get down around zero or lower overnight. To prep for this, I've added insulation under the sink, around the water pump and on the back wall, as well as insulation under the bathroom sink.

Boondocking? No shore power? Reliant on 400W of solar for 8-9 days with temps reaching 0F?
I think your tank heaters and furnace blower are going to outrun your batteries and solar. Thats so cold that the furnace won't shut off much during the day, the batteries don't get topped off headed into the night, and you might run out of 12v at 4am at 9F.

To be certain of success in those conditions without shore power I'd completely winterize so heating the tank isn't required.
Also bring a ladder for the side or some way to get snow off your solar panels without climbing the ladder in the back and walking across the roof to your slip-n-fall death.
A super reliable genie proven to start in those temps is a must.

In the town I live there was someone living in a Minnie through the full winter of 2022 at a mobile home/long term RV park.. it had a skirt and sometimes 3ft of snow piled up against it in 30mph winds down to near zero, so given that I'm inclined to think our trailers are legit 4-season capable, but not without shore power.

[Camper1]

Hey Dashunde!

I'm sorry I neglected to mention that we will have our Honda 2200i with us to keep the batteries topped off. So in effect, we have shore power, and I'm thinking on running it on 'Eco Mode' 4 - 6 hours each day, hopefully I won't need to run it overnight. I will of course monitor the 12v, especially if I leave the tank heaters on for any length of time. Just like running out of propane, if we run out of 12v at 4am at 9F, it would not be any fun.

I did give creating a kind of skirting some thought, but will try this trip without it. We are planning on bringing a ladder, but I was mainly thinking for clearing the slide before retraction, but not the solar panels, but obviously clearing the solar panels will be a must, thanks!! Absolutely, at my age, or any age, falling off the roof of an RV is not recommended.

Yeah, I can agree that with skirting, and 3' of snow packed against the sides of an RV, and constant shore power, most/some RV's could be considered 4-season. However, when I spoke to several RV manufacturers, they do not sell their coaches as 4-season, and do not recommend, or should I say, guarantee all systems to operate properly in colder weather. I feel this is true, even if a coach has a basement heater, which my 2108 TB does not. Thanks for the feedback!

[Morich]

One of the points that freeze pretty quick are the water lines running up between the outside wall and the shower wall. So it depends on how your RV is laid out.
Things we can get by with in a house are often not possible in RV as things are so different. Plumbing in walls of a house often have insulation under siding and often another layer outside of that.
In RV that outside layer is often only R5 or less foam with lots of unsealed holes. You might want to watch the windows when it starts to get cold as an indicator.
Moisture is likely to form there and when it begins to freeze, it is telling you anything inside that wall next to the window is colder than the surface exposed to the heat!
If the wind is steady and consistent from one direction, placing the RV in the right direction can help. Parking to block the wind can slow the heat loss if you can then also place it so the sun can warm it the next day, you can kind of catch up what the heaters don't cover.

When in cold country and younger, we found RV were not very practical for taking out on the lake to fish and a home built could be made much better than anything we could buy!
You might call that wasted but it seemed right at that point! NEVER AGAIN!
Weather can be a mean mother!

[Dashunde]

Originally Posted by Morich

One of the points that freeze pretty quick are the water lines running up between the outside wall and the shower wall. So it depends on how your RV is laid out.

Our 2108TB's have the valves and shower hose on the interior forward wall next to the fridge. I wouldn't expect any shower water passing by an exterior wall in the TB version.

Another point on the shower though.. they have a P-trap under the floor, I'd highly recommend he remove that small access panel so warm air can reach the P-trap.

If he hasn't he might want to create a whole thread asking specifically about hardcore deep freeze camping techniques.

[Dashunde]

Originally Posted by Camper1

I neglected to mention that we will have our Honda 2200i with us to keep the batteries topped off...

Thats good.
I'd start focusing on what-ifs.. Snow, cant leave, heater fails, etc etc.
Who is "we".. small kids?

Frankly, none of these trailers seem to be high quality enough or reliable enough for 8-9 days at 6000ft with temps nearing 0F.

There is a flexy pipe leading from the furnace into/under the floor - anyone know what its for?

[Camper1]

That's a great idea to watch the windows for moisture and then freezing as an indicator Richard! Yeah, the more water lines running along outside walls, the more problems that could occur while camping in colder/freezing weather. I'm sure R5 is being generous too! Fortunately for my 2108 TB, as Dashunde said, the shower water lines are are mostly on an inside wall. If possible, I will also consider positioning the RV when parking.

One thing on my bucket list is to try ice fishing, but reading your words, it will not be in an RV :-)

Great idea on the P-Trap access panel Dashunde! Yes, after this trip, starting a thread on hardcore, deep freeze camping may be advantageous to a lot of campers.

We always consider the what if's, especially the weather, and especially for snow. Even though I have chains for all 4 wheels on my F150, as well as a set of chains (Drag Chains) for the RV, I really don't want to 'Have' to put them on.

Nope, no kids for the 'we' just several buddies doing some elk hunting.

Well, I sure hope you are wrong on your thought that the 2108 TB's will not survive a trip like this at 6000' for 8-9 days in very cold temp. Hopefully, the modest mods I made will see us through.