No Brake light signal on 7 pin connector

[rshackleford]

I towed my Jeep Cherokee for the first time yesterday and unfortunately discovered that the brake light signal on the 7 pin connector on the back of the motorhome, 01 Journey 36dl, doesn't have a signal when the brake lights are on. Turn signals work but brake lights do not.
Im not sure where to start with this one, any suggestions?

[emiddleb]

The brake signal on a 7-pin is at the 5 o'clock position on the coach socket, 7 o'clock on the toad plug when looking at them face-on. First thing I'd check is to see if you are getting power at the coach socket when the brake is depressed, then see if you have signal coming out on the plug side.

Sounds like you have already checked this, but just making sure.

Next thing I'd check is the actual brake pedal in the coach and see if the wire is loose to the sensor on the brake pedal arm.

Do your Journey brake lights work properly?

[rshackleford]

brake lights work on the Journey, I thought the brake light signal was on the same pins as the turn signals. I think the pin you are referring to is for electric brakes.

[emiddleb]

This is the wiring I've always gone by... yes, I do use a dolly but I thought the pin-outs were the same on the 7-plug regardless... wiser heads might prove me wrong.


Terminal Wire Color Function Location - RV socket Location - Toad plug

1 White Ground 7 o'clock 5 o'clock
2 Blue Brakes 5 o'clock 7 o'clock
3 Green Running 10 o'clock 2 o'clock
4 Black Power 2 o'clock 10 o'clock
5 Red LT 9 o'clock 3 o'clock
6 Brown RT 3 o'clock 9 o'clock
7 Yellow Aux or BU Center Center

[cbeierl]

Here's a Winnebago Service Tip that may help: 2007-03 Seven-Pin Trailer Connector -

[FIRE UP]

rshakelford,
First off, I want to make sure of something here. Does your Journey have "Amber" turn signals? I think it does but, just want to make sure. If so, your brake lights both on the coach and, your signal to the correct pin on the plug of your coach is totally separate from your turn signals. As you most likely know and, it's been shown by another poster here, if you have amber turn signals, there will be a separate pin for right and left turn signals and, one for brake lights.

Now, with that being said, does your Grand Cherokee have ambers too or, just red brake lights? Sure makes a difference in how things are wired. Again, not trying to insult your abilities here, just wanting to be on the same page. Just because you have brake lights on the coach does not mean you'll have brake lights in the plug. On many Winnes, there's a separate set of fuses that handle that trailer plug assembly. It took me a while to find mine but, I eventually did and for me, mine are tucked in behind the lift-able louvered panel at the left rear of the coach.

If, you've got trailer plug fuses, you'll have to determine where they are. If you don't, then make sure you're getting a signal to the correct brake light pin on the plug, regardless if the coach brake lights are working. If you're getting a brake light signal to the plug, then, your issue is beyond that plug and possibly on the Cherokee side. Let us know what you find.
Scott

[rshackleford]

I do have amber turn signals.

I thought that the brake and turn signals were on the same pin, and that the brake on pin 2 was power for the electric trailer brakes.

I am not getting a signal on the RT and LT pins with turn signals off and brakes applied. I didn't check to see if the Electric brake on pin 2 had a signal or not.

The Cherokee is not involved at all. I have magnetic lights and a 7 pin to 4 pin converter. I plug the converter into the 7 pin connector on coach and magnetic lights into other side of converter.

The magnetic lights work with the turn signals but not when just the brakes are applied.

To reiterate, I checked pins 5 and 6 on the 7 pin connector with a Voltmeter, no converter in place, and I do not see any voltage when the brakes are applied.

[Jack R]

might check the fuse box for the 7 pin.

jack r

[rshackleford]

any idea where I can find that on an 01 Journey?

[emiddleb]

Here's a thread with photos for an '04 Horizon, but still a Freightliner so might give you a starting point... for them it was behind the last panel drivers side; needed to unscrew the panel and lift up, then dig around. Photos at bottom of thread.

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f101/fuse...lp-143340.html

[indiana journey]

On our 2004 Journey, the fuse box for the 7-pin hook-up is in the drivers side, rear compartment, with the electric hook-up. The fuse box is behind the sheet metal panel to the right side of the compartment. The panel comes out by removing screws at the back and on the outside of the compartment. the fuse box is hard to see, you will really appreciate the engineers for putting it in a place that is so hard to get to for service. Check each fuse and replace the one's that are bad. You should then have power to the brake lights.
Good Luck,
Indiana Journey

[motohomer]

I think this is the diagram you want.
Brake lites appear seperate from turn signals.
http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/2001/136939.pdf
from:
Wiring Diagrams

[tiredvet]

Originally Posted by rshackleford

I towed my Jeep Cherokee for the first time yesterday and unfortunately discovered that the brake light signal on the 7 pin connector on the back of the motorhome, 01 Journey 36dl, doesn't have a signal when the brake lights are on. Turn signals work but brake lights do not.
Im not sure where to start with this one, any suggestions?

You may need a converter. Amber turn signal to red turn signal.

[FIRE UP]

[QUOTE=rshackleford;1552245]I do have amber turn signals.

I thought that the brake and turn signals were on the same pin, and that the brake on pin 2 was power for the electric trailer brakes.

OK, let's see here. You have "amber" turn signals. So that means your running, brake and turn signals are all separate. So, no, the brake and turn signals will NOT BE ON THE SAME PIN, in your 7-pin trailer plug on the coach.

I am not getting a signal on the RT and LT pins with turn signals off and brakes applied. I didn't check to see if the Electric brake on pin 2 had a signal or not.

You shouldn't get the left or right turn signal pins to see any voltage when the brakes are applied. You'll only see voltage in those when either is activated. Now, since I'm not using one, I'm kind of giving a sort of educated guess here but, you should not see any "trailer brake signals" without the use of a "Trailer Brake controller" which, you would have hanging from the bottom of your dash, or there abouts.

The Cherokee is not involved at all. I have magnetic lights and a 7 pin to 4 pin converter. I plug the converter into the 7 pin connector on coach and magnetic lights into other side of converter.

Ok, If I may make a suggestion here. The term "Converter" usually applies to what's called a "Tail light converter" when adapting from a two wire system to a three wire system or, the opposite which is, a three wire system to a two wire system. You use these when the two vehicles are not the same.

Where as an "Adapter" is what I think you mean when you say you go from a 7-pin to a 4-pin connector. Correct? Am I interpreting this correctly here? Now, in your case, you need "BOTH" a converter and, and adapter. The reason you need a converter is, you have three different filaments performing tasks on the back of your coach. One, a running light, two, a brake light, three, an amber turn signal.

But, you only have "TWO" filaments performing those same three tasks on your magnetic lights, correct? So, since the wiring in the seven pin is different than what's needed in the 4 pin for those magnetic lights to work correctly, some changes in the wiring must take place in order for both systems (three filament on the motor home and two filament on the magnetic lights). Those changes are done with the use of a "Three wire to a two wire tail light converter. And, in your case it would be wired into the plug that plugs into the 7 pin trailer plug on your coach.

These "converter boxes" are magic to me. I'm presently using one in our setup. You see, it's the exact opposite you have. Our coach only has a two filament system but, we're towing a 2011 Honda CRV which, has a three filament system so, a "Two wire to three wire" converter was installed near the tail lights on the Honda. All works perfect.

Without drawing it out, what you need is a "Right turn into the converter, a left turn into the converter and, a brake light into the converter. Then, on the out going side of the converter all you'd see is, a RT turn/brake, and a Left turn/brake on it. It's a simple system.

The magnetic lights work with the turn signals but not when just the brakes are applied.

What you may be experiencing here is two separate problems at the same time. You see, by not having the correct wiring, converter etc. you're not getting the correct signals through the system all the way to the magnetic lights on the back of the car. And, the second problem you may be having is, you're not getting a brake light signal to the 7 pin trailer plug on your coach in the first place. So, that must be repaired prior to you moving on with the rest of the corrections.

But, an electric trailer brake almost always comes from a "controller" of some type because of the variance of applied voltage needed for variable pressure on the magnets in the trailer brake wheels. If you were to use your regular brake light signal for applying trailer brakes, you'd lock them up each and every time you hit the brakes, even just for slowing down some, because you'd be giving those magnets full voltage instead of variable voltage and also the inertia that's applied to the controller due to the action of the coach when the brakes are applied.

To reiterate, I checked pins 5 and 6 on the 7 pin connector with a Voltmeter, no converter in place, and I do not see any voltage when the brakes are applied.[/QUOTE]

OK, at the minute, I'm not at my trailer plug to see which pin should light up with brakes applied on the coach so I don't know which one to tell you "should" work when your brakes are applied. You need to find out if you've got a blown fuse for the trailer plug brake lights. In many Winnes and Itascas, there is a separate set of fuses just for the trailer plug. I'm always hesitant to say that you or anyone else should have these separate fuses just because I have them. Most of these rigs are built close to the same, but not always. So, you'll need to find, if you have them, those trailer plug fuses and see if one's blown for the trailer brakes.

If you don't have a separate set of trailer plug fuses, then you'll just have to find out what the cause of the " no signal" is to any of the pins in the 7 pin trailer plug. Once you've done that, then you can move on. I hope this has helped some and I didn't drag this out too much. But, anytime a domestic to foreign or, three wire to two wire or, two wire to three wire (as in our case) is encountered, changes must take place in order for all the kids to play together happily.
Scott

On edit: I didn't see that the poster above me supplied the picture of the converter I was trying to describe. That's the exact one you need. In fact, you'd need it whether you are using the magnetic lights or, powering up the factory lights on the Grand.

[rshackleford]

I think I may have found the source of some of the confusion.
1) I called freightliner and they did not provide trailer connector on my chassis.
2) according to this diagram form Winnie, http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/2001/136939.pdf They provided a 6 posistion connector, not 7.

Apparently the 7 pin connector was supplied by a previous owner and therefore, who knows how he wired it going from 6 to 7 pins.

In general, according to this wiring schematic, Trailer Wiring Diagrams | etrailer.com, on a 7 Pin connector, pins 5 and 6 are turn AND brake LIGHTS. Pin 2 is for electric brake controller. And yes if I do not have a cntroller then I will not see a signal on that pin. But typically that pin is connected to a wire that runs to under the dash for the addition of a brake controller for trailers with electric brakes. So if the connector was supplied by FTL or Winnie I would expect it to follow this standard, but since it apparently was owner supplied I will need to reverse engineer what he did.

At this point I am going to just wire in a converter

[grtharris]

rshackleford, Lots of good info above. Your coach came with a round 6 pin trailer connector. With the turn signal and brakes wired separably. On the 6 pin round there is a LT, RT and a S for stop lights. So if you have a 7 pin RV connector it has been added and you could have a trailer light converter already.

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by rshackleford

I think I may have found the source of some of the confusion.
1) I called freightliner and they did not provide trailer connector on my chassis.
2) according to this diagram form Winnie, http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/2001/136939.pdf They provided a 6 posistion connector, not 7.

Apparently the 7 pin connector was supplied by a previous owner and therefore, who knows how he wired it going from 6 to 7 pins.

In general, according to this wiring schematic, Trailer Wiring Diagrams | etrailer.com, on a 7 Pin connector, pins 5 and 6 are turn AND brake LIGHTS. Pin 2 is for electric brake controller. And yes if I do not have a cntroller then I will not see a signal on that pin. But typically that pin is connected to a wire that runs to under the dash for the addition of a brake controller for trailers with electric brakes. So if the connector was supplied by FTL or Winnie I would expect it to follow this standard, but since it apparently was owner supplied I will need to reverse engineer what he did.

At this point I am going to just wire in a converter

rshakelford,
Well Sir, as you say, "who knows how the P/O wired things"?? So, again, you'll have to determine just what pin does what. If you look at the page you linked, and scroll down to the 6-pin layout, you will see there IS NO PROVISION FOR "STOP" IN THAT PLUG. Yes, there is a provision for the intended "blue" wire which, is for trailer BRAKE CONTROLLER OUTPUT, but, that does not mean "Stop" as in regular vehicle wiring output for stop lights. And, if you look at that schematic, you will see "left turn AND BRAKE" , then you'll see right turn AND BRAKE!

That type of wiring is for standard "Two filament" tail light wiring. It combines your turn signal and brake light signal in to one application, depending on what position your turn lever is in, while driving the coach. If the turn signal lever is in the neutral position, you will have "brake lights" coming from both the left and right pins in that plug. If your turn signal lever is in position for a left or right turn, the pin for the left or right turn signal will be flashing and the opposite one, will be constant, IF, the brakes are on at the same time the turn signal is flashing.

And so on for the opposite situation. But, in your case, you have a "Three filament" tail light situation. So, if your trailer plug on the back of your rig has/had been wired correctly, you'd have one pin solely for RIGHT TURN, one pin solely for LEFT TURN, one pin dedicated to "STOP LIGHTS", and, if one exists(trailer brake controller that is), a pin dedicated for a trailer brake control wire.

From this point on, it's any ones guess if there's alterations to your setup. As has been suggested, it is possible that someone has/had wired in a "Tail light converter" so that, in the testing of your particular plug, you WILL FIND, a Right turn/Brake and a Left turn/Brake with no dedicated "STOP" wire/pin.

One of the true, main advantages of wiring things according to national standards and colors, is, if and when you, in your coach, are called upon to help a friend or even a complete stranger tow his or her trailer or car/toad, etc. because they're coach has broken down etc. you will be able to hook right up and not have to do any "Re-wire" for the hookup. That is of course assuming your friends trailer/toad etc. is wired ALSO according to national standards or colors.

Now, my suggestion, for what it's worth, is get your system on your coach, wired as it's supposed to be. And that is, a separate right turn, left turn, and brake light wire, in all those pins on your trailer plug. Then, wire your toad WITH THE TAIL LIGHT CONVERTER IN THE TOAD! The reason, now you can tow your toad, and, anyone else that has the "three filament(amber turn signals on their coach)" can tow it also. There are many, many toads out there that utilize the three filament system. Our present toad, is one of them. It's a 2011 Honda CRV and has amber turn signals. I've wired it utilizing the stock bulbs, ALL OF THEM, so that it looks the exact same when it's being towed as it does when it's being driven.

You can of course, do as you're thinking and, wire in the converter "prior to" the wiring of the trailer plug in your coach, that will work too. Good luck.
Scott

[rshackleford]

Scott,

I disagree.

The pinout shown at the etrailer.com site shows a combined RT_Brake and LT_Brake on both the 6 and 7 pin connector. They both also have a Brake Controller Pin.

It doesn't matter whether the coach has combined turn and brake or separate turn and brake. It doesn't matter how many filaments the coach has or the toad, be it magnetic lights or integrated toad wiring. To be compliant with the pinouts for standard wiring for the 6 or 7 pin connector the turn and brake must be combined.

What does matter is if the coach has separate turn and brake then it will need a converter to combine the turn and brake into a single pin for each side before the 6 or 7 pin connector on the coach.

Then if your magnetic lights or integrated toad lights have separate turn and brake you will need another converter to split the signal back out to separate wires.

I wired a converter into the coach to combine the turn and brake at the 7 pin connector so at least the lights are wired correctly.

Now i need to get a wire to the front for the electric brake controller and a separate wire for power.

It is important to me to get this wired per the standard because sometimes I will want to use a 7 to 4 adapter with magnetic lights for a toad and sometimes I will want to tow a flat trailer with electric brakes and a 7 pin connector.

If I was only towing my toad I could wire it together using whatever pin I want for whatever signal but I plan on towing a friends trailer and possibly renting one occasionally so I need to be wired per the standard.

[FIRE UP]

Mr Shackelford,
While it is your vehicle and, you can wire it in any way that best serves your application. The terminology of "Two filament" and "three filament" is old school and applies to exactly what you and I are discussing here. It simply means whether you have amber turn signals or not. Now, for instance, if our coach, was like the older Journeys, and, even Meridians that are newer than our '04 Horizon, and it had amber turn signals, I would have not had to wire in a converter to tow our '11 Honda CRV.

It would have been a straight through wiring system. Now, if I were to do it the way you suggest, and our coach did have amber turn signals (it doesn't) then it would be kind of dumb to wire in a "Three wire to two wire" tail light converter prior to the coach plug, then, on the other side of the pig tail plug for the CRV, on the car, I'd have to wire in a "Two wire to three wire" to bring it all back to normal. Why?

Again, this is your rig and you wire it as you think works best. If you have intensions of towing different apparatus with different tail light systems, then of course you will have to deal with that and wire it so it works without issues for any of them. The wiring schematic that many use as an example, is like the ones from etrailer.com and does not take into account the amber turn signal system if, one is (like us) going to be towing a vehicle or trailer that has amber turn signals.

My '08 Honda Goldwing has a "Three filament" system. In that, it has amber turn signals so, when I wired it for a two filament system on the trailer we tow behind the bike, which has no amber turn signals, I had to install the tail light converter. But, if we decide to move to a more modern equipped trailer with amber turn signals, then I will remove the converter and wire things straight through the pig tail on a six pin setup.

It's all a preference thing.
Scott

[rshackleford]

Just curious, with a separate brake light pin for an amber turn signal system, what pin is your electric brake on?
That seems to be the other issue for me, besides being compliant with the standard, is when i tow a trailer with electric brakes i need pin for the electric brake controller. In your setup, if i understand correctly, you are using the electric brake pin for the brake light so if you tow a trailer with electric brakes you will be connecting the brake light from the towing vehicle to the electric brakes on the trailer.