Black tank question

[calhyatt]

Wow. That was an interesting thread. Many interesting ideas and different ways to accomplish the same result.

[jerichorick]

Debates on this subject have been long and hard with some folks even becoming adamant that their method is the only one that 'truly' works.

I look at the black tank this way. It is the first tank a septic systems sees. (I have always had septic systems so I think in these terms.) The way I treat what goes into my tanks is the same way I treat a septic system.

1/ If it can't dissolve quickly it doesn't belong in my tanks: paper towel, feminine hygiene products, grease, bleach, caustic chemicals...

2/ If it isn't biodegradable it is a no no. We use any toilet paper that says "Septic Safe". Special RV TP is not necessary as mentioned above.

3/ The use of bleach must be sparing. A bit in the laundry from time to time is ok. Chlorine bleach breaks down to water and salt. Salt kills bacteria.

This gets me back to the septic system its self. If we think of it as a living organism we are thinking correctly. This is a GOOD living organism and it is to our best interest if we treat it this way.

The bacteria that make up a good septic system start to form within us! (YUCK!) But that is a good thing. When we add enzymes to our tanks we are just helping the septic process along. The more of the good bacteria we kill in the main system, from dumping dead tanks full of bleach and chemicals into our hosts dump station, the more money we will be spending for our host campgrounds in septic maintenance. In the end we pay for it.

Our main problem is keeping out tanks active but also allowing our gauges to function. And this is why, as we can all agree I am sure, the arguments begin.

If the gauges are not reading correctly but the gauge components are functioning correctly as best as we can tell, we are probable all certain that the tank has crud on the walls in the sensor areas.

Here is something that I just though of as a test of the sensors. If you can gain access to them, remove them with the tank empty and see if the reading changes. If the problem goes away the tank is definitely dirty.

Now the challenge begins on how best to clean it. We really don't know what is on the walls. It could even be mineral deposits from the water that has built up over time. It may be in this very thread where the owner used a plumbers acid solution to clean his tank after trying every other practice method failed.

My tank sensors are working fine at the moment. We use baking soda and a cheap enzyme based power dishwasher detergent. We dissolve a cup or so of each in hot water and dump it down the flusher after we dump and again at about 1/2 tank reading. We dump when we have been at about a 3/4 reading for a few days and use the "Sani-flush" system Winnebago has installed running as the tank drains. I have a clear elbow at the dump gate (as mentioned by another poster) and I watch for clear water. I close the gate several times to get a clean water flood wash in the lower tank area. Then I close the black valve and open the grey tank to wash the hose out.

Thanks for reading all of this. I hope I am accurate and I hope I have been helpful.

Happy trails,
Rick

[ladagobago]

Originally Posted by jerichorick

Debates on this subject have been long and hard with some folks even becoming adamant that their method is the only one that 'truly' works.
Chemist and sanitary engineers all have various individual ideas too and often with opposing statements so not all we write here is gospel

I look at the black tank this way. It is the first tank a septic systems sees. The way I treat what goes into my tanks is the same way I treat a septic system.
not everyone dumps into a spetic system and certainly not everyone is in their RV full time. I clean my tanks completly after every trip. The tanks are merely holding tanks and not a septic tank. TRAINS, BUSES, BOATS AND RV'S ALL HAVE HOLDING TANKS and not treated as spetic.

3/ The use of bleach must be sparing. A bit in the laundry from time to time is ok. Chlorine bleach breaks down to water and salt. Salt kills bacteria.
This small amount of salt is not any worse than the discharge from the water softeners salt discharge during recharge cycle used by most home wtih septic systems

The more of the good bacteria we kill in the main system, from dumping dead tanks full of bleach and chemicals into our hosts dump station, the more money we will be spending for our host campgrounds in septic maintenance.

TANKS FULL OF BLEACh?? A few cups of bleach to help clean and sanitize holding tanks is not "full of bleach". AND in many cases will never see a septic system. Wonder how the "Host" handles the 75 plus families using the laundry machines every day, with all the folks using their favorite detergents and chemicals, (bleach) to clean their clothes and bedding.

We use baking soda and a cheap enzyme based power dishwasher detergent. We dissolve a cup or so of each in hot water and dump it down the flusher after we dump and again at about 1/2 tank reading.

HERE IS A PROFESSIONAL SEPTIC SITE STATEMENT
Rural leaching of waste has been around for a long time and many myths exist. Yeast, when added to your septic system, merely provides a "fermentation" environment. Yeast does not provide bacteria. Baking soda raises pH in your septic tank. It provides no bacteria. In fact, raising the pH of your septic tank too much can actually harm the septic process. We encourage you and all our customers to call us for factual information before trying home remedies.


Happy trails,
Rick

THE CAPS were only for edit and not yelling.
Baking soda is the end product of soda ash which is derived from lime stone process. (solvay process) both light and dense ash (sodium carbonate) and products such a these are bad for septic systems. I would add vinager go nutralize the pH. Additionally, they are contained in powder laundry detregents along with clay fillers and ar a no no for septic. Use liquid detergents for any septic.

If you are full time hooked up to a septic then the OP has good advise. On the other hand, if you are a weekend tripper or have your RV sitting idle for long periods, I find it much better and less smelly to keep the tank cleaned. Just my opion to add to the stinky discussion.

[jerichorick]

About the baking soda disagreement? I have read many articles on this subject and it is considered safe for septic systems.

I am not certain where yeast came into the conversation but the 'bugs' in it do no harm but are not as effective as Rid-x or other such products.

When rereading your comments I have come to this conclusion. You simply want to disagree with me. That is your privilege. My goal is to provide information that will HELP other RVers and be reasonable to the environment. If you feel you need to win than you are the winner.

[mike.t]

Originally Posted by jerichorick

About the baking soda disagreement? I have read many articles on this subject and it is considered safe for septic systems.

I am not certain where yeast came into the conversation but the 'bugs' in it do no harm but are not as effective as Rid-x or other such products.

When rereading your comments I have come to this conclusion. You simply want to disagree with me. That is your privilege. My goal is to provide information that will HELP other RVers and be reasonable to the environment. If you feel you need to win than you are the winner.

I don't think he had a "NEED" to win. This thing got going (imho) when you went after him for his comments. There are better way's to voice an your opinion.

[jcrain9663]

When we bought our used RV last November, we realized the tank readings were not correct. We dumped when it got full, but the tank still said 2/3. Granted, we were newbies, so we weren't as knowledgeable as we are now, more than six months later (RVs have a steep learning curve!). Over the winter we tried several different products, but no matter what we did, the tank continued to read 2/3 full when it should have been empty.

Long story short, we realized the previous owner had let the coach sit for 2 YEARS more than half full. When nothing else was working, we tried the GEO method. The first time, I used it as normal, but there was no change in the tank reading after dumping. I decided to refill the black tank with fresh water (about 1/3 by guesswork) and added calgon and detergent. We drove 200 miles that day (over very bumpy roads), and dumped the next day, followed by flushing and rinsing via San-i-con.

The sensors now read empty after dumping for the first time in six months. To me, that's an indication that the GEO method works! After this experience, I now no longer consider us newbies!

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by jcrain9663

When we bought our used RV last November, we realized the tank readings were not correct. We dumped when it got full, but the tank still said 2/3. Granted, we were newbies, so we weren't as knowledgeable as we are now, more than six months later (RVs have a steep learning curve!). Over the winter we tried several different products, but no matter what we did, the tank continued to read 2/3 full when it should have been empty.

Long story short, we realized the previous owner had let the coach sit for 2 YEARS more than half full. When nothing else was working, we tried the GEO method. The first time, I used it as normal, but there was no change in the tank reading after dumping. I decided to refill the black tank with fresh water (about 1/3 by guesswork) and added calgon and detergent. We drove 200 miles that day (over very bumpy roads), and dumped the next day, followed by flushing and rinsing via San-i-con.

The sensors now read empty after dumping for the first time in six months. To me, that's an indication that the GEO method works! After this experience, I now no longer consider us newbies!

I guess that I am not into acronyms. Sounds like dishwasher detergent to me. This is what I have been trying to say all along. The only difference in the products used is that the Scotch is coming out of me by using the cheap, no name power, and I like the enzymes. The baking soda is just a smell killer and is harmless.

The bottom line? Glad that this worked for you. I hope the readings continue to be controlled by the cleaning action.

Happy trails,
Rick

[jcrain9663]

Originally Posted by jerichorick

I guess that I am not into acronyms. Sounds like dishwasher detergent to me. This is what I have been trying to say all along. The only difference in the products used is that the Scotch is coming out of me by using the cheap, no name power, and I like the enzymes. The baking soda is just a smell killer and is harmless.

The bottom line? Glad that this worked for you. I hope the readings continue to be controlled by the cleaning action.

Happy trails,
Rick

I didn't mean to imply anything, just that the GEO method worked to clear my badly crudded black tank. Seriously, we determined that the black tank was at least 1/3 full of dried 'stuff'. We got it working OK with other chemicals, but the GEO method worked very well on the crud.

I may try the baking soda once I'm certain it's thoroughly clean. I have to have the roof vent checked this summer, in case the cleaning didn't take care of our persistent odor (but I think I did since I don't semll it now). I know RVers who are successful at using nothing, but I personally think it's better to use the enzymes (of some type) to create a slurry rather than having to dump solids.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by jcrain9663

I didn't mean to imply anything, just that the GEO method worked to clear my badly crudded black tank. Seriously, we determined that the black tank was at least 1/3 full of dried 'stuff'. We got it working OK with other chemicals, but the GEO method worked very well on the crud.

I may try the baking soda once I'm certain it's thoroughly clean. I have to have the roof vent checked this summer, in case the cleaning didn't take care of our persistent odor (but I think I did since I don't smell it now). I know RVers who are successful at using nothing, but I personally think it's better to use the enzymes (of some type) to create a slurry rather than having to dump solids.

I am sorry that you took my comment as being a bit crisp. It was not meant to be. I was a truly trying to applaud you for your choice of product type for solving your problem. Some believe that the expensive chemicals on the market are the gospel, and some think heavy doses of bleach is the way to go. Both of those methods are often harmful to the hosts sewage facility. But, with that aside, I am truly glad for you that you did overcome all that crud.

When we first got this coach, May last year, the smell from the hopper was real bad. I added a booster vent to the tank and started using the coffee mug full of each produce, baking soda and dishwasher detergent. (Recently I have started dissolving them by adding hot water to the cup and mixing with a fork.) The problem was solved by the end of our first tank.

I hope you live a 'sweet' RVing life. Many happy trails.

Rick

[Pepper2]

Our black tank started reading 2/3 full this year. The other day I filled the tank 1/2 full and put about 10lbs. of ice in the tank and drove 130+ miles to the CG and dumped the tank. The monitor read empty after that.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Pepper2

Our black tank started reading 2/3 full this year. The other day I filled the tank 1/2 full and put about 10lbs. of ice in the tank and drove 130+ miles to the CG and dumped the tank. The monitor read empty after that.

Good job. I hope you now try to keep the tank as free of wall slim as possible with some prevention method. From the above post of mine you know my preference. We have been in this coach for a year and have never had an issue with the tank readings. Besides, I can tell when we are at about 3/4 by the way the flush looks and sounds. Time to dump.

Happy camping,
Rick Y

[Pepper2]

I bought some Happy Camper treatment at the beginning of the season. Hopefully it will help keep the sensors accurate and the tank clean and fresh, then I may move on to the cheap dishwasher detergent method. Save some $$$$

[s1njin]

I took a hybrid approach. So far I'm putting Calgon down the empty tank with a gallon or two of water to slosh around as I go about my travelling. When I arrive at camp, its Happy Camper down the chute. After each dump, its more Calgon and Happy Camper.

So far so good. FWIW

[CigarBoy]

What a great thread I stubbled across when searching for Black Tank Maint. I love to see strong opinions and great results from the different methods. It give me choices I like choices.
Since my usage of my MH is more like Rick's (jerichorick) i'm going to try the GEO process. While i can understand its a 'holding' tank, its got to go somewhere when i'm done holding it. Therefore it should be treated like any other septic system.

I've done the bag-o-ice method a few times and its worked well, but the fact that I have to do it again and agin, tells me that i need to go one step further. I'll be using the enzyme / softener on my next outing before i pull out of the driveway.
Happy Travels!!

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by CigarBoy

What a great thread I stubbled across when searching for Black Tank Maint. I love to see strong opinions and great results from the different methods. It give me choices I like choices.
Since my usage of my MH is more like Rick's (jerichorick) i'm going to try the GEO process. While i can understand its a 'holding' tank, its got to go somewhere when i'm done holding it. Therefore it should be treated like any other septic system.

I've done the bag-o-ice method a few times and its worked well, but the fact that I have to do it again and agin, tells me that i need to go one step further. I'll be using the enzyme / softener on my next outing before i pull out of the driveway.
Happy Travels!!

I'm originally from Berlin. We NHers need to stick together.

I had a '05 Vectra. Never did get the black tank gauges to work correctly consistently. I suggest filling the tank 2/3 with hot water (hard to do) and add 2 to 3 cups of the walmart dish power. Go for a 1/2 hr or so ride, let the solution set overnight, then drain the tank. Don't flush with a rinse. See what the gauges read then. If good, add a little water to the tank and go on with business as usual.

One plus we found when we started to use the baking soda is that the smell was gone and reduced when I dump. On this coach I have never had a gauge problem and have consistently used the detergent and baking soda. When I dump there are very few solids.

Happy trails and many successful dumps,

Rick Y

[DonKarstedt]

If you doubt your sensors, it seems real easy to look down the toilet for a direct inspection of the level. But what about the gray water tank? Does anyone know an easy way to directly double-check the level?

--DonK

[AFChap]

I can check my black tank level by sound when flushing. On gray tank level, I know it is full when it starts dripping under the water bay ...apparently have a leak at the gray tank entry point !!

[DonKarstedt]

Ha! I was hoping for a slightly less invasive test than poking a whole in it. :-)

--DonK

[CigarBoy]

Thanks for the great tip Rick. I'll give that a shot. Now to get lots and lots of haht wattah!
-mike

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by CigarBoy

Thanks for the great tip Rick. I'll give that a shot. Now to get lots and lots of haht wattah!
-mike

Hey Mike. I hope we don't have to resort to some of the above methods for knowing our tanks are full. "...dripping in the water bay"?