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11-15-2020, 10:46 AM
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#1
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Winnebago Camper
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Full timing
Posts: 22
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Electric water heater
Hi folks, we just got a new to us 2013 Journey 36M. We have been using the elect hot water heater but now not working. It says on at monitor but no hot water. When checking the service panel it says no electric. Is there a fuse or a separate switch some where?
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11-15-2020, 12:56 PM
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#2
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Winnebago Master
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Pflugerville/Austin, Tx
Posts: 8,529
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You don't seem to be getting much attention so maybe asking some questions will get it going? Forums things tend to work in spurts at times!
I did some looking on your parts and wiring and really did not spot any electrical to the water heater! Not to say it is not there, just that I did not spot it. so that brings some questions.
Is this electric heating 110AC, so I should look there or perhaps some form of 12VDC? Also what do you mean by the "service panel"? The outside panel where you access the water heater drain, etc?
It might also be helpful to post up what brand and model of water heater, if you have it handy, as it may require some looking at that specific model?
__________________
Richard
Why no RV year, make and floorplan on MY signature as we suggest for others?
I currently DO NOT have one!
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11-15-2020, 01:15 PM
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#3
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Winnebago Master
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Pflugerville/Austin, Tx
Posts: 8,529
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CORRECTION!
I do see the water heater on the 110AC drawings as I would have thought but with some more questions about what it tells me!
This is your 110AC drawing for your RV and I did a snip of what I see:
https://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram...ire_181559.pdf
Go direct to the drawing or click on this snip to get a better view but I have some doubt about the info as drawn because I see the water heater working directly off the EMS ( electrical management system) without switches, breakers, etc. and no connection on this drawing to let you control or monitor it???? Doesn't seem right but that is all I see right now.
I do want to throw in the EMS is not something I've dealt with, so surprises are an open question!
If you have tested at the outside and found no AC there, it shows a couple other boxes where things like loose wires might be hiding?
__________________
Richard
Why no RV year, make and floorplan on MY signature as we suggest for others?
I currently DO NOT have one!
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11-16-2020, 08:12 AM
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#4
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Winnebago Owner
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Army Guy
Hi folks, we just got a new to us 2013 Journey 36M. We have been using the elect hot water heater but now not working. It says on at monitor but no hot water. When checking the service panel it says no electric. Is there a fuse or a separate switch some where?
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A little more info might help. Specifically what service panel are you looking at? The breaker panel? The fact that you have the power indicator at the wall power switch makes me think your issue is at the hot water heater itself. It could be the control board, thermostats, relay switch that controls 110V to the element.
Is your unit the Dometic Attwood 10 gallon. I believe it is. I recently went through mine and it turned out to be the power relay switch "behind" the unit. Does your LP work?
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2008 Voyage 35L, Allison 6 speed auto and GM Workhorse 8.1 gas
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11-16-2020, 09:09 AM
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#5
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Winnebago Master
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Pflugerville/Austin, Tx
Posts: 8,529
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One point that is easy to miss is that indicator lights are often 12VDC while they are an indicator for something that needs 110 AC to work. I suspect this is true for the water heater as most all I've seen are 110AC to get the extra power needed to heat water quickly.
That can leave us seeing a light that says it is working because the switch and 12 VDC is okay but still not work because there is a problem with the 110AC!
When lights replaced gauges on cars we called them "idiot lights" because they did not really tell you what you wanted to know!
In this case with the water heater and drawing, there is some doubt because we know there is at least a switch in the circuit to turn it on/off but that is not shown on the drawing. This drawing shows us a couple points for connections and where they might be found but indicates the heater works directly off the EMS without switches or indicators of any sort. That might be explained by the way Winnebago does their drawings for 110AC and 12VDC on different drawings, even though each does require the other to work right!
A power relay on the 2008? That would certainly be a place to look BUT is there still the same on a 2013????
Some info from the 2008 drawing which may help or just not be worth spit!!!
IF the layout is still the same, it MAY be that your water heater does get it's 110AC power directly from the load shedder and there is a relay there, so checking for this may help? Lots of guessing there! On the parts drawing for the 2013, I do not see a load shedder listed and I think the water heater is in a different location, so this idea is very suspect!
__________________
Richard
Why no RV year, make and floorplan on MY signature as we suggest for others?
I currently DO NOT have one!
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11-16-2020, 09:30 AM
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#6
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Winnebago Owner
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 229
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Yes Richard on the 12 volts on the lighted panel switch. That sends the signal to the 12 volt control board on the Attwood. Then if the thermostats are doing their job the control board sends 12v for the relay to power on the 110v from the breaker panel.
Now what is his exact configuration? I did look the Winnebago specifications for his 2013 before I replied above and what I saw shows the same Attwood as the one from 2008. If I'm wrong, sorry but I don't think I am. Just trying to help a guy get a hot shower and wash dishes.
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2008 Voyage 35L, Allison 6 speed auto and GM Workhorse 8.1 gas
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11-16-2020, 09:38 AM
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#7
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Winnebago Owner
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 229
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Almost forgot, that relay is part of the Attwood.
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2008 Voyage 35L, Allison 6 speed auto and GM Workhorse 8.1 gas
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11-16-2020, 10:11 AM
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#8
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Winnebago Camper
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Full timing
Posts: 22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topsail
A little more info might help. Specifically what service panel are you looking at? The breaker panel? The fact that you have the power indicator at the wall power switch makes me think your issue is at the hot water heater itself. It could be the control board, thermostats, relay switch that controls 110V to the element.
Is your unit the Dometic Attwood 10 gallon. I believe it is. I recently went through mine and it turned out to be the power relay switch "behind" the unit. Does your LP work?
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Thanks, I have an Atwood 10 gallon water heater. The panel I was referring to is the Power Control System Central Monitor Panel. When I'm plugged into 50amp, the panel shows water heater off. The One Place display shows water heat elect on.
This is as clear as mud to me 😁
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11-16-2020, 12:16 PM
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#9
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Winnebago Owner
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 229
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As Morich mentioned about the 12v isn't showing itself on the schematics. I believe that light on the One Place is 12 volts so that will reflect power. The Power Comtrol does seem to be the question.
You may as well throw the breaker for the water heater off and on just to confirm its not been tripped.
Your next step will be to confirm power from the Control Module. If you don't feel comfortable chasing wires don't try. Get help.
There are some seriously good electrical folks on this site (including Morich) so hopefully these people will take an interest.
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2008 Voyage 35L, Allison 6 speed auto and GM Workhorse 8.1 gas
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11-16-2020, 01:02 PM
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#10
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Winnebago Owner
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 229
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I went back and looked at the 12 volt Body electrical drawings and noticed the water heater switch that you see as "on" so this is available. At least you know to look at the 110 side.
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2008 Voyage 35L, Allison 6 speed auto and GM Workhorse 8.1 gas
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11-16-2020, 02:01 PM
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#11
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Site Team
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Spring Branch, TX
Posts: 8,359
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Here's an important test you can try... does the hot water heater work on Propane? Have you tried it?
There is a thermal fuse between the 12v power and the circuit board. It's a small diode looking thing inside a clear plastic tube.
If the water heater gets too hot - usually from using propane - this fuse blows from the heat. It's not an electric fuse. 12v power flows through it and if the fuse sees too much heat (I think it's a 190 degrees fuse) power will not flow through the fuse and you will not have EITHER AC heating or Propane heating.
So, try turning on the Propane water heater and listen to see if it starts up. If it does then it is not the thermal cutoff. If it doesn't start on Propane than that would be the next thing to check.
Get back to us after you check that and I can tell you how to proceed to fix it for the time being on electric.
Here's a photo of the Thermal Cutoff Fuse - you cannot tell by looking at it if it is blown.
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2017 Winnebago Adventurer 37F
2016 Lincoln MKX Toad
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11-16-2020, 03:01 PM
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#12
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Winnebago Master
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Pflugerville/Austin, Tx
Posts: 8,529
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Since there are so many different versions and changes on water heaters, if you can locate a model number on the heater, it would allow for getting a more accurate troubleshooting guide.
__________________
Richard
Why no RV year, make and floorplan on MY signature as we suggest for others?
I currently DO NOT have one!
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11-16-2020, 03:23 PM
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#13
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Winnebago Master
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Pflugerville/Austin, Tx
Posts: 8,529
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From the parts catalog here:
https://catalog3d.winnebagoind.com/menu/Parts.htm for the 2013 Journey 36M
I find this drawing of the heater and there are some spsupect points that will need some checking if we can find the power is getting to the heater. For that the manual would be great to have.
But I have marked several items which would seem to fit for an electrical heat failure. Clicking the picture can get you a better view of the snip.
One item that we can say for sure requires 110AC is the heating element but it is not as likely to be the problem as some of the small parts like switch, thermostat and board.
But then a troubleshooting guide for this specific heater would be great! No point in us guessing if they have it all spelled out somewhere?
__________________
Richard
Why no RV year, make and floorplan on MY signature as we suggest for others?
I currently DO NOT have one!
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11-22-2020, 07:49 PM
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#14
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Winnebago Camper
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Maroa, IL
Posts: 13
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I have a 36m and have had exact same situation. Cause was spider webs caused Ctrl box to fail. Replaced and all is well. Heater would not work on gas either.
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11-23-2020, 02:01 AM
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#15
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Winnie-Wise
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 294
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Creative, Morich, Topsail thanks for all of your help on all manner of posts, I'm sure it's appreciated, and certainly by me. I try to look at the posts even if I don't have the problem (a horse in the race) now as it certainly may crop up in the future.
Creative, your post states that the thermal fuse may be at fault. I've wondered what the piece covered in plastic was and now I know, thank you. It appears that on the one end of it distal from the board, there is a spade connector. I've wondered if it is also a spade connector at the board? Certainly would facilitate changing it if needed. Have you changed one out? I didn't want to pull on it just to see if it disconnects.
Thanks
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2015 Itasca Sunstar 35F
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11-23-2020, 08:33 AM
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#16
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Site Team
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Spring Branch, TX
Posts: 8,359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Upinsmoke
It appears that on the one end of it distal from the board, there is a spade connector. I've wondered if it is also a spade connector at the board? Certainly would facilitate changing it if needed. Have you changed one out? I didn't want to pull on it just to see if it disconnects.
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I’ve had to change out five of them! It’s easy and there are spade connections on both ends. One end is male and the other end female.
My WH has had a problem running on propane since the first day I purchased my RV. It will run fine for almost one whole day and then about 70% of the time it will blow the thermal cutoff.
The selling dealer just replaced the device and declared it fixed. A second dealer claimed bad airflow and removed what he said was excess sealant around the door. The factory service center replaced the circuit board and igniter and said “there all fixed” - not.
So I’ve taken over fixing it myself. I think it’s a flaw in the way the exhaust gases exit my water heater. They get trapped around the area where the cutoff resides and it blows.
When you buy a replacement thermal cutoff it comes with both the standard device that just plugs right in, but included in the package is a second piece of wire with a spade connector. I didn’t know what to do with that wire, but recently I found an old thread on another RV forum that had a couple of folks with the exact same problem as me. They said to use the included wire to move the cutoff further away from the exhaust port. So, I’ve recently done that and will be trying it out next week.
Most people will never blow a thermal cutoff ever. But it happens. And those that do will never need that extra wire to relocate the cutoff further from the exhaust. But there it is.
By the way, this WH problem isn’t that big an issue for me because we usually stay at parks with 50 amp power and use the WH on electric. Also I carry two thermal cutoff devices with me and when using the WH on propane I can tell when one has blown and fix it in minutes.
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2017 Winnebago Adventurer 37F
2016 Lincoln MKX Toad
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11-23-2020, 10:19 AM
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#17
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04 Meridian 36G dp
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Mesa Az
Posts: 8
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Electric water heater
My 36 Itaska Meridian (04) had the elect. side quit. (Atwood 10 gal) i opened the back of the unit from under the MH to get to the elec. connections. 110v came to that point. I noticed the ground wires attached to the aluminum tank were corroded. I cleaned all and that fixed the problem.
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11-24-2020, 12:35 AM
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#18
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Winnie-Wise
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 294
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Creative, thanks for the update and hope this extension works for you although by now you must be a pro at changing them.
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2015 Itasca Sunstar 35F
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12-02-2020, 05:59 PM
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#19
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Winnebago Camper
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Full timing
Posts: 22
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Thanks for all the insight. Sorry it's been taking me a while to respond. Have had a few other issues to deal with. Thanks for all the thoughts and help. Most of it was beyond my skill set.
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Rick & Jana along with Mr. Bo
2013 Journey 36M
Retired US Army
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12-05-2020, 06:50 PM
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#20
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Winnebago Camper
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Full timing
Posts: 22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Army Guy
Thanks for all the insight. Sorry it's been taking me a while to respond. Have had a few other issues to deal with. Thanks for all the thoughts and help. Most of it was beyond my skill set. ��
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Ended up being the heating element.
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