Priming a Water Pump

[FastEddie723]

Can anyone please help me with how I can prime a water pump in a 2021 Minnie 2529RG? The unit had been stored in my RV garage for a year while I recovered from a stroke.

I asked an earlier question about the location of the water pump and got a quick response. I have now located the pump, but now I need to prime it. The pump appears to work because the waters spurts out sporadically (no steady steam) when I turn a spigot(s) on. I do not have a water connection handy, so I poured 16+ gallons of drinking water from 1-gallon jugs into the gravity feed intake on the side of the Minnie (it's a 37 gal tank). I was sure to use the inlet port and not the black tank backflush connection. So, I know I have fresh water in the fresh water tank, but I just can't get a steady stream (even after repeated attempts of several minutes each, but I don't want to damage the pump).

is there a way to use a gallon jug to prime the pump? I have checked the filter and lubed the seal for the filter.

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

Ed




but no wter is being transferred to teh faucets or shower.

[Ray,IN]

Yes there is a way to "prime" the pump by using the winterizing hose inserted into a gallon jug of water. but first, locate the round water screen just after the pump and make sure it is cleaned out.


The pump will not prime if all faucets are closed, at least one must be open to allow air to escape. The how water side of your plumbing will not contain water until the water heater tank is full to the over-pressure valve. You open that valve by pulling the lever out to the horizontal position, then flip/snap it back closed when water begins to come out.

[Morich]

Self priming pump and doesn't need primed! However it will not pull water from the tank if there is a way for it to pull air from any spot as the water is much harder to move than air!

We don't get the good drawings on parts for trailers as we do for motorized, so it will take a bit more looking.

So one of the most common problems where air gets into the lines is an open drain valve, open suction tube or if we have not done the winterize correctly, the little filter cup will often be left with water in it over the winter and freeze to break very easily!

One of the easier ways to spot that air leak is often connecting to pressure water as it will often come out in a gush!

That on again/off again flow? That is when the pump "almost" gets enough water flow but mostly air flow!

[Eagle5]

On my 22M, if I completely fill the fresh water tank (and have an open valve as Ray mentions above) then my pump primes well.
Eagle5

[Blue Sky]

Originally Posted by FastEddie723

So, I know I have fresh water in the fresh water tank, but I just can't get a steady stream (even after repeated attempts of several minutes each, but I don't want to damage the pump).

Many of the water pumps in TT's can be run dry with no damage. Check the manufacturer's site for information. Just guessing, it's likely you have a Shurflo which is a Pentair product. Also, most pumps are advertised as being self priming if the source is within 6'. Most will self prime from a much longer distance.

I'm new to WBGO and was surprised to learn there is no overflow on the fresh tank. The other replies indicate that you have to leave a valve open. That makes sense because without a vent to the atmosphere you would pull a vacuum on the tank. Odd that there is no overflow. Maybe it will make sense in the long run.

Edit: I would like to hear from those with more experience the pros and cons of not having an overflow on the fresh tank.

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by Myakka

Many of the water pumps in TT's can be run dry with no damage.

I'm new to WBGO and was surprised to learn there is no overflow on the fresh tank. Odd that there is no overflow.

Edit: I would like to hear from those with more experience the pros and cons of not having an overflow on the fresh tank.

Yes, this is a surprise to me as well. Quite surprised that there is no overflow AND to learn there is a check valve on the gravity fill tube. That seems like a problem waiting to happen.

You are correct the water pumps in these RVs are totally self-priming and they are unlikely to be damaged running dry. They are not rotary blade pumps, they have a number of diaphragms that are pumped as the motor turns to create the suction. They don’t rely on water being present to keep from burning up the pump or motor.

[Morich]

Originally Posted by Myakka

Many of the water pumps in TT's can be run dry with no damage. Check the manufacturer's site for information. Just guessing, it's likely you have a Shurflo which is a Pentair product. Also, most pumps are advertised as being self priming if the source is within 6'. Most will self prime from a much longer distance.

I'm new to WBGO and was surprised to learn there is no overflow on the fresh tank. The other replies indicate that you have to leave a valve open. That makes sense because without a vent to the atmosphere you would pull a vacuum on the tank. Odd that there is no overflow. Maybe it will make sense in the long run.

Edit: I would like to hear from those with more experience the pros and cons of not having an overflow on the fresh tank.

Without knowing which RV you have we can't really look at what you have but then it seems you "may" have been given bad info when you think there is no overflow??
But there are hundreds of different Winnebago and you may have one that is different than most.
Keep in mind that it will be nearly impossible to force water into a tank without some way for the air inside to get out?
That often means there IS an overflow or vent somewhere on the tank.

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by Morich

Without knowing which RV you have we can't really look at what you have

That’s covered in the original post in the thread. The OP has a 2021 Minnie 2529RG.

[Fred 2106DS]

Ed,

Look at your freshwater gravity fill. You should find a screen vent for the freshwater tank. This serves as both overflow and vent for the freshwater tank. See picture below.

As for your pump not priming, do you have a winterizing kit installed near to pump? Assuming you do, sounds to me like the winterizing valve may not be closed and is letting air into the pump and not allowing the pump to pull water from your freshwater tank.

Fred

[Blue Sky]

Originally Posted by Morich

Without knowing which RV you have we can't really look at what you have but then it seems you "may" have been given bad info when you think there is no overflow??
But there are hundreds of different Winnebago and you may have one that is different than most.
Keep in mind that it will be nearly impossible to force water into a tank without some way for the air inside to get out?
That often means there IS an overflow or vent somewhere on the tank.

There is a vent. I contacted customer service and they sent me the fresh water schematic. It's a line that runs from the tank to near the gravity fill.

I didn't pay attention to that feature because it's the first TT I've owned that doesn't have an overflow. (Customer service is still in contact with tech to find out where the overfow is and I appreciate that, but it's not on the schematic and there is no pipe extending below the underbelly.)

Bottom line: We will have fresh water in the tank.

[Morich]

Sorry about my poor reading on your post! Some way, I had a total miss on what RV! Doing too many things at once? That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!

I'm possibly spoiled as we deal with motorized so much, that I really hate the fact that we get so little online info on the trailer group.

Getting water into the tank is a big first step and that should work to also make the search for why the pump doesn't work as it should.
The idea on the pump is that it is a different type than we sometimes see and it is designed to pull water from the tank, even when dry. It is a rubber diaphragm that is not damaged when run dry. I never like to do it for any long period but it is meant to be safe. Instead of a round impeller which can stick to the sides when dry, this type is a more a rubber series of "bubbles" in a section and as the motor turns, it rotates a shaft and squeezes those "bubbles" in turn, somewhat like our heart might do?
Or maybe more like a series of squeeze bulbs inline which pass water or air on down the line?

The problem is that water is much harder/more dense than air, so if there is a place where air can get into the lines before the intake side of the pump, it tends to move that air before it moves the water from the tank.

I made this drawing to show what often happens if we skip some small step on getting the RV out of storage.
If we leave some valve on the input side of the pump, where it has to draw a suction to drag water from the tank and the pump is often mounted somewhat higher than the bottom of the tank, it has to pull that water uphill!

Kind of like sucking on a soda straw with a hole in it? We might get a drink but we get lots of air, too!



Some of the easy places where that water can get in are the suction hose, a drain left open, or the fragile little filter on the pump. Of course, it could also be a leak in oone of the lines from freezing but being human, we are prone to being the problem, too. The only folks making mistakes are the ones who are doing something, so I'm ok with that!
Some water may get pulled and pumped to the faucets, but it often means lots of air and bubbles get moved. Or water in short spurts? If we fully fill the tank, the portion of water will be more but often that water will leak out at the leak when we shut off the pump.

[No1Hunter]

Originally Posted by Myakka

There is a vent. I contacted customer service and they sent me the fresh water schematic. It's a line that runs from the tank to near the gravity fill.

Can you post that drawing as an attachment? I came home from a camping trip with a water pump issue. My pump stopped pulling water from the water tanks - only sputtered and had a very loud knocking sound. I thought I was out of water only to find out I had about 15 gallons left.

Does anyone know if you should be able to blow air into the water tank from the using the water pump intake side hose (removing it from the pump)?

[Blue Sky]

Originally Posted by No1Hunter

Can you post that drawing as an attachment? I came home from a camping trip with a water pump issue. My pump stopped pulling water from the water tanks - only sputtered and had a very loud knocking sound. I thought I was out of water only to find out I had about 15 gallons left.

Does anyone know if you should be able to blow air into the water tank from the using the water pump intake side hose (removing it from the pump)?

I was unable to upload the fresh water schematic because it's in PDF format. If you contact WBGO Towables CS they will send you the one for your TT. That said, they are all somewhat alike - just different component placements.

Sputtering and knocking are usually signs of air being sucked into the pumps intake line. In your TT my best guess is that it would be in the line from the fresh water tank, or in the line(s) and associated valves in the winterizing system.

I'm not a big fan of PEX. It's great when it works well, but can make suction leaks hard to find. I always replace PEX lines with braided tubing and hose clamps, and I have never had one of those connections fail.

I tried converting the pdf to jpg on the fresh water schematic but the resolution was so low it wasn't useable.

[No1Hunter]

I was unable to upload the fresh water schematic because it's in PDF format.

If you use the "Manage Attachments" button under "Additional Options" when making a post, you can attach a PDF. I will contact customer service but really need to solve this ASAP.

My intake tubing from the water tank is braided but has cinch clamps. It almost seems like there is an obstruction in the tube. I can blow air into the water tank or suck water back. Sucking on it makes a vacuum, which seems to rule out a leak. Can you tell from your drawing if there is a check valve or anything like that under the floor near the water tank?

[Blue Sky]

No1Hunter, thanks for the tip on the pdf. FRESHWATER.pdf ... hope it works.

I'm not seeing a check valve in the schematic.

[Morich]

There is not likely to be a check valve on the pump intake side. There is a pump check vavle on the output side as that is needed to keep the water from going into the tank as we we fill from a hose by passing through the pump "backwards"!

I might guess that you have a pump problem but would want to test it first. One way to verify the pump is okay is to move the valve for the suction line to draw water from a jug as we would when we winterize, only using it as a pump test?
If it draws from a jug, it should draw from the tank, assuming no piece of junk blocking the line. etc.!!
On the question of blowing air into the tank, yes, it should pass fine but be aware that you will be pushing against any water in the line and tank, so may take some heavy breathing if the tank is full!
Assuming drawing is correct for your Rv, this seems what should happen when you get suction on the tube or blow into the tank. I assume the valve marked in red is correct??? That missed could be a deal killer!

Those small details can sneak up on us....

[No1Hunter]

Originally Posted by Myakka

No1Hunter, thanks for the tip on the pdf. Attachment 186208 ... hope it works.

I'm not seeing a check valve in the schematic.

Thanks Myakka, that works!!!

Of course, my hoses are not the color according to the drawings. Tank to pump - blue, winterization hose - blue. They must have ran out of the other colors! LOL

[No1Hunter]

I might guess that you have a pump problem but would want to test it first. One way to verify the pump is okay is to move the valve for the suction line to draw water from a jug as we would when we winterize, only using it as a pump test?
If it draws from a jug, it should draw from the tank, assuming no piece of junk blocking the line. etc.!!
On the question of blowing air into the tank, yes, it should pass fine but be aware that you will be pushing against any water in the line and tank, so may take some heavy breathing if the tank is full!

Yeah, I had thought of that and yes, the pump draws water from the jug. I also watched the strainer and it was full of water while drawing water from the jug and as soon as I turned the valve off, it got air in it. So, it appears there is a leak between the winterization valve and the water tank. BUMMER!!!!!

The funny part is it started doing it on the evening of the 2nd day of a 3-day camping trip. We were set up and not moving. at the time, and it worked fine beforehand. I wonder if something got in there and crewed on the tubing??????????? I have never heard of anything crewing the tubing, only electrical wires.

[Morich]

But rodents being rodents, they chew,not for food but to keep the teeth sharp and that means they may chew most anything.
I've always thought they were just mean and chewed the wiring because it was more trouble to fix!
But I also know that one of the big troubles above ground telephone cables had was squirrels chewing through the lead insulation and making leaks!
The dirty devils will chew on most anything!

[No1Hunter]

Well, after much to do, I figured it out. Keep in mind, when this started during our camping trip, we had put 25 gallons of water in the tank. Half way thought, it started sputtering. I drained the tank into a 5 gallon bucket and we had approximately 12 - 13 gallons of water left.

I opened up the underbelly (wasn't as bad as I have heard), and traced out the water line. It was fine. Added 5 gallons and tried the pump again after moving the hose around a bit. It was still spitting but while under the trailer, I heard a sucking/spitting noise. HUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM. Added 15 gallons more and everything works fine. The trailer is pretty much level (within a 1/2"). So, it appears the fresh water tank may not level with the trailer. It looked ok, from what I could see. So, if anything, we will try to be high on the driver side to compensate as we were 1/2" low on the driver side camping.

So, while I was in there, I fixed the fresh water filling problem. After the fill hose and vent hose go into the floor under the shower pan, it goes through a hanger of sort in the metal frame. Then they drop all the way down to the underbelly and back up to the top of the water tank. So, I zip-tied them up so they are more level, if not higher than the top of the water tank pushing the excess hose up under the shower pan. I haven't tried it yet, but I am betting that will solve a significant amount if the issue.