Shower Pan Removal 02' Adventurer 35U

[vetman90]

I guess I'm ready to jump in with both feet to find and fix a water line leak in the bathroom along the outside wall somewhere behind the shower pan. I have a mist spray going on there that is soaking the woodwork under the bathroom sink cabinet, through the small wooded plumbing line cover between the sink cabinet and the shower pan and my carpet in front of the bathroom is wet as well as the carpet in front of the dinette. The back of the shower pan is up against the wall facing the front of the coach. The water is getting to the carpet by traveling along wood braces along the shower pan and seeps under the wall and into the carpet.

It's a friken mess inside. Ruined the wood line cover, the sink cabinet bottom, the wood across the entire front of the shower base causing the shower curb wall to swell outward towards the toilet.

I can't find any other access to those water lines other than from above which means the shower wall and pan must come out.

Under the flooring is the black water tank and these water lines are above it.

Before I start the removal of the entire shower I thought I would throw this problem out here in hopes maybe someone else has experienced this.

Being able to access the repaired tubing in the future looks to be impossible considering it will be behind the shower pan which will be reinstalled.

Any advice would be much appreciated !!! Happy New Year !!

[BobC]

I thought through all this when I was dealing with a shower problem and was considering the possibility of replacing my water lines. Fortunately my problem was with the valve.

I think removing the shower pan should be a last resort and, if you were to do so, I suggest you look into replacing the whole shower surround, especially on rigs as old as our '02s. In doing so, I'd look into one of the fiberglass surrounds sold by Home Depot, Lowes and others. You may even be able to order one to your specific measurements.

According to pg 5 of the 2002 35U's plumbing diagram, there are two sets of lines running through this area, the feed lines for the shower and for the kitchen.

http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/...g35u_plumb.pdf

The main problem I see in this is being able to get the new line(s) in place since I don't know what obstacles they might route around under the shower pan. It appears that the shower lines are held in place by curved brackets at floor level that could complicate things.

The first step is to determine which line or lines are leaking. One possibility would be to see if the noise the leak spray makes decreases when a particular valve is opened, thereby reducing the pressure in the offending line. The rest of my comments relate to the shower lines. If the problem is with the kitchen lines the same principles would hold.

The panel around your shower valve is removable so you have good access to the water lines from the upper end at the shower valve. Removing the vanity completely will increase your access from the lower end. There's just not enough room otherwise.

If pulling on one end of a line moves the other end, then the line isn't secured under the shower pan despite what the drawings show. If this is the case, you should be able to attach the new lines to the upper ends of the old and pull the new lines into place with the old ones. Otherwise, you're going to have to fish them through, assuming no obstructions. I'd go ahead and replace both lines even if only one is leaking.

If you need more access to accomplish the above, rather than remove the shower pan, I suggest opening up the "front" of the shower pan below the shower door. This should give you access for routing new lines and can easily be closed up with an attractive access panel of some sort.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[l1v3fr33ord1]

vetman90-

You have access to three sides of the area under the shower pan- if you are willing to cut into the walls. I had to do this recently on our coach, so I could plug some holes through which mice were entering.

By using an oscillating multi-tool (saw; links here and here) you can make some neat cuts in the plywood. Then you can put an access panel over them, as Bob said. I'd start by making a hole in the bathroom, as a panel would be less-noticeable there than in the wall next to the dinette.

[BobC]

I was just in my 35U and the floor of the shower pan is pretty solid, making me think it's sitting on, and likely glued, to a plywood subfloor above the MH floor. If I'm not mistaken, the depth of the shower floor bears this out. If glued, it would be difficult, if not impossible to remove without damage and, even if you could remove it, you still wouldn't have access to the compartment containing the water lines without taking up the plywood subfloor as well.

[vetman90]

BobC,

You mention lots of great research criteria here for identifying individual fixture supply lines. In my situation here it really doesn't matter which water line is the problem because of the water damage done to the wood under the shower pan and especially the curb. This leak has apparently been happening for some time.

I full time in this motorhome and I am set up along side of a fence on my driver's side. The fence is 2" from my dinette/sofa slide out. I have full hookups here, water, power, septic tank 80' away downhill so using the water powered macerator is always connected but continuously gravity drains my grey water. I don't use the toilet here so I can keep my black tank clean and odor free. The kids own the 5 acres here and have a bathroom in a barn/shop so I use that. It's only a few steps away. Because It's only me and no others in the motorhome it works best for me. This way I don't have to go around the motorhome near the fence and bend down to deal with opening and closing the dump valves and babysit the macerator for 15 to 20 minutes each week and then spend more time high pressure wand cleaning of the black tank from through the toilet after each dump.

I mention all this because it's why I never go around the drivers side to notice any dripping changes in addition to a slow drip I have always had from behind my utilities compartment hookup and controls panel. This is another small issue to tackle some day.

I don't mean to ramble on but I have other issues to tackle first. The one piece fiberglass roof sheet popped out of the retaining trim and it's not going back in. The absolute worst roof system ever. The new roof will be FlexArmor.

The fridge quit after 16 years so this comes before the new roof !!!

Oh and the basement a/c died and blows the motor starter relays when replaced. Both motors/compressors do the same.

Back to the topic, I didn't notice the leak until it grew to the point where water is getting soaked up by the carpeting and is travelling fast into the bedroom and out in the dinette area.

I'm removing the surround today and plan on putting it back since it is still like new. Same with the pan. No stains. Both still have a nice gloss finish.

Rather than removing the sink cabinet, I have great access to the water lines through the removable bottom inside. I'm planning on splicing in at this access panel and again under the pan area depending on what I find. If I can replace an entire run if it's a shower supply line then I'll do that.

I'll be sure to add more progress tonight.

l1v3fr33ord1,

Yeah I also cut walls open as required to replace ALL the water supply lines that exploded during a big freeze years ago. That was in a 1999 35' Bounder. That piping was rigid pvc so it required elbows and tees making fishing new lines in pretty limited. Like you said, I covered the holes with nice looking vent grills from Lowes. Lots of sizes available and a real plus for the next owner if it happens to him.

I gave lots of thought to going through the living area side of the wall but after seeing deteriorated wood all around the shower pan I really have no choice but to remove the shower completely and do it all right.

It's so hard for me to work through access panels now that I'm aged and also weighing 250 pounds doesn't help !!

Thank you too for your advice.

[vetman90]

BobC,

I checked on a replacement pan before starting this adventure in case the pan is glued down underneath. Man I sure hope not !!!! The pan alone though is not too expensive. I'll know in a few hours.

[BobC]

Good luck and I hope the damage isn't too extensive. How much is the shower pan?

These '02 35Us are nice, with a great floor plan, but they can be a challenge. I have air conditioning issues as well. Compressor 1 is fine but Compressor 2 tries to start and doesn't catch despite my having replaced both the start and run capacitors. I need to go back to square one and do some step by step trouble-shooting. Rather than sink too much money into trying to fix a 17 year old unit, if it's not something simple that I can do myself, I might replace the whole unit which looks like a pretty straight forward DIY job. I've read too many posts from people who've sunk hundreds of dollars into a fix only to find out it wasn't successful.

My next project is to replace a leaky hydraulic hose on the front slide. I've already had several replaced but one was either missed or wasn't leaking when I had the others done. I'm going to tackle this one myself but I'm not looking forward to it.

[vetman90]

BobC,

When I get to the a/c problem I'm just going to go with a new Coleman Central A/C Unit with Heat Pump that sells for $2,500 to $2,600 including free shipping from many suppliers, even Amazon.

I figure I'll see if mine is an easy repair and if so then I'll fix it, test it and sell it on craigslist for $800.00.

Thing is, it's still 18 years old and you can only get so much out of it before everything on it just wears out.

Kind of the same situation with my refrigerator. I hate to buy a rebuilt coil unit for the backside only to find out the control circuit board is also bad and after another few years the fridge interior can start splitting open at stress locations from age - the plastic liners get brittle. Using those spring loaded bars inside it to keep things from falling off the shelf when opening the door after a rough ride can break an old liner easy.

Same thing with the old fridge. It's super clean inside and out, the doors work great and the black decorator panels on the doors are free from dents and scratches. List it on Craigslist for $200.00. Someone with an ugly fridge the same size (typical top freezer bottom fridge 8cu.ft.) can move their operating system from their fridge to mine fairly easy.

So the shower surround came out very easy because it's so flexible but prying it off the side walls to release the double sided tape is a chore. Just takes time and patience to carefully use a ridgid 4" taping knife/scraper or a carpenters flat bar/nail puller. Once the surround is out of the bathroom and into the bedroom on the bed - out of the way, remove the perimeter screws that become exposed since the overlapped surround is off.

Here's the best part !!! Reach down and pull up on the shower pan and it comes right up - no glue under it and the drain is a slip joint so it pops right out of the abs drain piping under it.

Now your looking at a 1" thick plywood support which also blocks access to the water lines below. Reach down and pick it right up, no fasteners because it is locked in place by the walls and the waste line.

Once the floor support is removed your looking at all the piping to the shower and the wiring bundles (big bundles) running through this space and up to my systems monitoring panel with the generator start and also heating/cooling controls. Seems every coach is a little different on where these panels are located so yours may be different.

One supply line to the shower had been kinked and finally burst at the pinch. Something that would have happened while assembling the coach at the factory. Could be the same guy that installed the one piece roofs that become sails when the time is right.

The water lines to the shower valve were randomly fasten to plywood flooring under the raised plywood floor that supports the shower pan with plastic straps so that would have been a problem trying to use the old piping to fish the new lengths.

So here is the best idea as far as I'm concerned. Install a slim access panel (say maybe close to 4" to 6" tall by 12" wide) through the outside wall. This allows you to feed the water lines around the bend to get into the bathroom sink base cabinet where the cabinet floor lifts up to access water lines. These lines continue farther past the cabinet floor access but it's an easy place to cut and splice (union fittings) and the union or unions are always accessible through your sink cabinet at any time.

My shower pan is 39" from front of curb to the back wall so the 24" x 48" standard rv pans (approx. $125.00) won't work. I'm sure an exact replacement pan from Winnebago will be quite expensive and there won't be any free shipping either. Same issue with the shower surround. Anyone attempting this must be very careful not to ruin the surround while pulling it away from the sidewalls to release the double sided tape. There were 3 vertical runs of tape on each side and the tape they used is extremely sticky and doesn't want to let go without lots of effort.

Unless you're doing a complete remodel in your bathroom but you'll end up with a smaller shower stall. Keep in mind a one piece fiberglass stall is much heavier, won't bend like the original floppy surround so the toilet and wall cabinet have to come out to maneuver a one piece into the stalls site.

Fiberglass stalls have a perimeter flange that you screw into your walls which create a big ugly problem in an RV. These flanges are meant to be overlap covered with sheetrock or cement backer board if using ceramic tile.

So another couple days to replace the wood curb support and the oak cover trim that went between the curb and the sink cabinet, replace the water line, replace the shower control valve while all this is open and then wait the most part of another week for all the water drenched wood that can stay to dry out. Then I can reinstall the pan, surround and plumbing trim.

My shower came with a fold up seat mounted to the left side wall. I broke that the first day I tried it years ago. I weigh 250 lbs...........guess that was too much. I fell down unexpectedly and needed a few minutes to get up again. Sore for 2 more days.

I'm going to add a little more backing and cover the old seat bolt holes with a replacement fold up seat that supports 400lbs and includes folding feet from the seat to the pan. A cantilever seat again is a bad idea for me !!!

[mikf]

So here is the best idea as far as I'm concerned. Install a slim access panel (say maybe close to 4" to 6" tall by 12" wide) through the outside wall. This allows you to feed the water lines around the bend to get into the bathroom sink base cabinet where the cabinet floor lifts up to access water lines. These lines continue farther past the cabinet floor access but it's an easy place to cut and splice (union fittings) and the union or unions are always accessible through your sink cabinet at any time.

Are you saying you are going to have an access panel from the outside of the RV?

[BobC]

Vetman, thanks for the details. They might come in handy some day. My wife uses a wheelchair so I've been contemplating how to improve shower access, which may or may not involve re-building the shower. I almost suggested the outside wall access panel but figured that you'd need to do the other work to know exactly where to put it, etc.

If you can post or send me some photos of your roof problem, I may have some ideas for you.

I sent you a friend request so we can stay in touch regarding our '02 35Us.

[vetman90]

mikf,

I don't need it now that I went to such an extreme inside to replace the bad water line. If it were to happen to me again I would sure rather add an exterior mounted access panel than have to pull the shower out. The panel I'm talking about would be about the same size as what is used to access my outside stereo system. Painting the panel to match my exterior decal scheme is something I would do myself. We're talking about a panel that is only approx. 5" tall and 12" wide. Critical measuring would be required to hit the right spot for it.

[NeilV]

On my 2001 Adventurer 35U most of the plumbing for the shower can be accessed by opening the One Place Panel, the shower valve panel in the shower and the tan colored metal Louvered Vent near the floor under the One Place Panel along with under the sink.


I (a 250 lb disabled senior citizen who walks with a cane) became quite familiar with getting into this area when I installed my Energy Command Hard Wired AutoStart for the generator and tied it in with the thermostat, etc finding some fittings on the shower valve that needed to be tightened while I was in there. I routed all the 12 volt DC wiring along the feed lines to the shower valve to under the sink and then down through the wet bay to the electrical bay along with up to the drivers compartment so I'm pretty confident it can be all done without having to remove the entire shower since I have already run electric wire through those same runs without creating new access points. Where the existing flex tubing is tied down where you can't get to it I would just cut it loose and leave it there under the shower pan running the new alongside it.



Now that you have yours all apart a small fan can greatly speed up the drying process. Before you close it all up you may want to treat the entire area with Concrobium or some TriSodiumPhosphate based mold killer/prevention so you don't leave any active spores behind or have new ones blossom under there in the future.

[vetman90]

NeilV,

I'm using EcoClean Solutions Mold, Mildew & Algae Remover throughout the area under the pan, all open voids showing the top of the gray tank, all the wiring harnesses and through all those access panels you mentioned.

I also use it on the outside of my coach especially the roof and end caps that grow algae really fast while I'm full time parked for the past 3 years. I can't climb the roof ladder and walk the roof anymore due to old age and bad joints. Back when I was travelling I would use the truck washes and have it hand washed top to bottom. Every spring season I'd hire a young guy to power buff the exterior fiberglass with wax.

Being parked permanently for so long the algae remover in a spray rig and a high pressure washer work great from the ground to keep the exterior looking clean.

Those pathways you mentioned for fishing wiring and pex piping would work for fishing lines through but in my case a had a pinhole leak that developed from where one of the shower supply lines had been kinked when originally installed. Now that the entire area under the shower pan is exposed I found this pinhole was located under the pan support and was spraying onto the bottom of that plywood support and then fanning out in all directions allowing water to travel under the walls and the shower curb. This water went under the sheet vinyl in the bathroom causing the vinyl to raise up like blisters in spots, caused all the pressboard filler panels forming the shower curb support to swell up which moved the front of the curb panel under the shower door outwards toward the toilet, ruined the wood cover between the shower curb and the sink cabinet (it was eroded badly underneath) and then the water started seeping from under the back wall of the shower into the carpeted areas. I wasn't aware of the leak until the vinyl floor started popping up and the carpet got wet.

If it wasn't for all the damage caused I could have cut my shower supply lines through the access in the bottom of my sink cabinet, unscrewed them at my shower valve, abandoned them (because they were strapped to the floor under the pan they would not pull out) and try to fish 2 new lines from the shower valve to the floor grill access in the hallway and hope the pipes would bend enough to make a right turn under the shower pan and head into the open access space in the base of the sink cabinet where I could splice these 2 new lines into the existing lines.

There is so much wiring under the shower pan for the pex pipe to get tangled in and black abs sink drain and vent piping running along the flooring level it's hard to say how well that would work. I'd be worried about disturbing all the wiring harnesses and causing another problem to deal with.

Well anyway, I was able to get the area dried out, treat the entire area with mold kill, replace shower curb support, remove the one damaged pex line and add shutoff valves for both shower supply lines in the base of the bathroom sink cabinet so in the future I can service the shower valve without shutting off water supply from outside. I also replaced the original shower valve body with a new polished brass trim residential set from Home Depot that is a good match to our existing brass trimmed bathroom.

Onward to the next Winnebago repair adventure !!!

[BobC]

I'm glad you were able to get to everything that was damaged.

If I ever have a problem like this, I'll know what to do.

And thanks to Neil for the information he's provided. I thought about the heater return but just assumed there would be ducting in the way. I'll have to take a peek.