Under Sink Water Filters - Yea or Nay?

[Shedboy]

Agree w #10 & #18 replies.
There are two classifications of H2O impurities, organic and inorganic.
There are federal "Clean Water Act", county and city water purity regulations.Some coincide, some conflict.
In populated areas where there are "safe" water supplies, often times there are dangerous impurities (sometimes related to industrial, agricultural or illegal drug manufacture) that can dissipate with time and temperature, making them difficult to detect.


A certified analytical water lab that has an ability to analyze liquids with a gas or liquid chromatograph is needed to assess if the municipal water meets federal standards. Due to incompetence, sample collection to test time constraints and cost, most municipalities do not test their water to legally required standards or the municipality writes their own reduced standards.


So, an RV'r is left to their own judgement when choosing a water supply. Fortuitously there are few reported problems in the USA, one has to be careful when visiting our southern neighbors where the average daily temperature encourages bacteria growth and sanitation systems are few.


Chlorine and iodine are the most common disinfectants for organic contaminants, filters are used to remove particulates. Be sure to disinfect BEFORE filtering, some organic "critters" will glob together before dying and need to be filtered.


As for streams and lakes, sunshine is a great disinfectant, it has builtin ultraviolet radiation. Streams have an added benefit if they are fast moving, the water gets oxygenated, killing bacteria. Scout the stream 1st, be sure there are no dead animals or humans upstream of your source.

[wahoonc]

Originally Posted by sajohnson

I just did a search and found this:

Can a yard hydrant be used for potable water?

"Finally, perhaps the most important consideration of all: Are you planning on using the yard water hydrant for drinking water? If so, you'll need to find a model specifically designed for potable water. These are called sanitary hydrants and are designed not to drain to ground.":
https://hydrants.com/everything-yard...%20to%20ground.

I was not aware there were two different designs/categories. My guess is that many/most of the ones RVers come across are NOT 'sanitary hydrants', but of course I have no way of knowing. I do know that my wife and I have seen muddy water flow out of some of them. It's particularly obvious because when possible I'll park with the wet bay close enough to the spigot that I can connect the clear filter housing directly to it (there is a 6' potable water rated hose between the filter housing and the city water inlet).

More recently, we try to remember to run the water a bit before connecting, so we usually don't see any thing much in the filter housing, but sometimes the initial flow of water is dirty enough that its's clearly visible.

I'm sure it's not an issue for people who filter their water, but the ordinary 'farm' type frost-free spigots that are not sanitary should be permanently marked in the way you described, because there is a risk there, however slight.

If you get motivated, I'd love to see the photos and video you have.

Interesting. I did not realize there was a difference until I did some digging. We have half a dozen yard hydrants that probably cost ~$50 each, they run clear when we turn them on. They are buried 2' deep in a 2'+ gravel bed. The ones for potable water run about $150, no wonder the RV parks don't use them. Several of the RV parks we frequent use a standard sillcock with a heat line attached to keep them from freezing. Some do use the regular yard hydrants.

Aaron

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by wahoonc

Interesting. I did not realize there was a difference until I did some digging. We have half a dozen yard hydrants that probably cost ~$50 each, they run clear when we turn them on. They are buried 2' deep in a 2'+ gravel bed. The ones for potable water run about $150, no wonder the RV parks don't use them. Several of the RV parks we frequent use a standard sillcock with a heat line attached to keep them from freezing. Some do use the regular yard hydrants.

Aaron

Yep, I'm guessing most we come across are the standard type.

Yours seem to be installed properly. I imagine some are installed without enough gravel, and/or the soil does not 'perc' (absorb water) well -- in which case there's a good chance water will flow back into the hydrant.

I'm not one to imagine there are microbes behind every tree (so to speak). When I first bought my property, the water source was a (covered) shallow spring with a well pump tossed in there. The county tested it but they only look for a few things, like E.coli. Of course I was in my 20s. We had a well dug a couple years later.

My wife and I have seen some seriously muddy water come out of yard hydrants, but after seeing it in the clear sediment filter housing in the wet bay -- surprise! -- we make sure to let the water run a bit before connecting the filter.

[Shedboy]

What a thorough posting, the expertise plus practical knowledge is enlightening. A few additions to purifying water..... Sorry for the following rant, bottom line is you can protect yourself by knowing the source of the water and treating it appropriately.



Most impurities in water are not harmful.
The "hydrant" type of freeze protected faucets that drain the "stand pipe" aren't perfect but don't pose an unreasonable risk. Surface water that reaches the drain on these types of faucets is filtered by the soil and is slowed down enabling natural bacteria to attack "nasty" organisms in the ground water.


On the other-hand, these types of faucets in populated areas are subject to dogs peeing on them (as are all faucets) and the possibility that they are located near a septic tank or septic drain field. What was in the drain water that the previous camper poured next to the faucet?



Drinking water RV purifying methods can be specialized into systems for municipal water sources or boon docking sources. Both methods protect against the behavior of the inhabitants (human or animal) of the area who in general, are the main source of harmful "pollutants". The pollutants can be divided into two categories, organic and inorganic.


Missing in the discussion above is the practice of sanitizing the water prior to filtering, common practice is to use bleach or iodine. The water exposure time to these chemicals is important. Filtering AFTER sanitation.



There is no perfect water, just as there is no perfect physiology (immunity to "contaminated" drinking water).

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by Shedboy

What a thorough posting, the expertise plus practical knowledge is enlightening. A few additions to purifying water..... Sorry for the following rant, bottom line is you can protect yourself by knowing the source of the water and treating it appropriately.



Most impurities in water are not harmful.
The "hydrant" type of freeze protected faucets that drain the "stand pipe" aren't perfect but don't pose an unreasonable risk. Surface water that reaches the drain on these types of faucets is filtered by the soil and is slowed down enabling natural bacteria to attack "nasty" organisms in the ground water.


On the other-hand, these types of faucets in populated areas are subject to dogs peeing on them (as are all faucets) and the possibility that they are located near a septic tank or septic drain field. What was in the drain water that the previous camper poured next to the faucet?



Drinking water RV purifying methods can be specialized into systems for municipal water sources or boon docking sources. Both methods protect against the behavior of the inhabitants (human or animal) of the area who in general, are the main source of harmful "pollutants". The pollutants can be divided into two categories, organic and inorganic.


Missing in the discussion above is the practice of sanitizing the water prior to filtering, common practice is to use bleach or iodine. The water exposure time to these chemicals is important. Filtering AFTER sanitation.



There is no perfect water, just as there is no perfect physiology (immunity to "contaminated" drinking water).

Excellent points!

After reading that we have decided to sell our RV and stay home!

Seriously, very good observations. I know some RVers chlorinate their water when boondocking (some chlorinate regardless of the source) then filter the chlorine out at the point of use. Nothing wrong with that. In our case, we do boondock some, but we have always been able to get our water from a treated, tested source -- so we never felt the need to chlorinate it.

If we were boondocking for (say) a week or more, that would be different. 30 gallons only lasts so long. In that case we would carry 5 gallon jugs of potable water. Both for safety, and because our View does not have a gravity feed (although there is a way to add water to the tank using the pump). Regardless, I'd rather stick with using only tested potable water in the plumbing system if at all possible.

You're absolutely correct about the standard hydrants -- anything that can seep down to the level of the drain can find its way into the stand pipe. While it's usually not a problem, it certainly could be. Fingers crossed that flushing the faucet before connecting to it is sufficient.

We do not leave the water supply connected (we fill and disconnect), but it just occurred to me that many RVers do leave their hose connected, and they often turn it off before leaving their campsite (smart). Of course doing this creates another opportunity for contaminants to seep into the stand pipe. Most RVers likely do not disconnect their hose and flush the faucet out when turning the water back on.

'Knowing the source of the water and treating it appropriately', is of course good advice, although needless to say, there are situations where one cannot know with any certainty what is in the water. For example, we have a 140' well. It has 6" steel well casing down to bedrock and it was grouted properly -- and it is located on high ground. The chance of surface water getting into the well is slim. We are on the side of a "mountain" (large hill) and our property and the surrounding land is zoned "RC" (resource conservation) -- no agriculture or commercial/industrial use allowed. Our well water is *probably* very safe, but we have no control over contaminants that might be introduced (sometimes rapidly) into the aquifer. Testing is good, but it is only a snapshot -- the water quality could change next week or next month. For that reason I use a pair of Pentek filters (P-250A) certified to NSF 42 and 53. Are they necessary? Probably not, but they are inexpensive insurance. Pentair has at least 2 filters that are also certified to reduce PFOA/PFOS by 97-98%: the Omni CB3 and their "ChlorPlus Protect". I'm considering using one of them (or another brand) because nearby town wells have relatively high levels of PFAS.

I'm in the process of researching them now.

[Shedboy]

Agree completely


I have had municipal water tested to federal standards in a certified lab, The process required a municipal representative to be present at the time the sample was taken and the official's certification that the sample taking process was according the state heath and safety department's (H&S) procedure.



The water sample was packaged in an H&S supplied double insulated box in dry ice using 10 sterile test tubes. The procedure included sterile gloves, conditioning of the water sample spigot using a blow torch and the water was faucet was left fulll open for 10 minutes before the sample was taken.The H&S inspector accompanied me to the small plane airport and notified the only state certified lab, about 250 miles away, the time of day, temperature, who took the sample (me) and location of sample taking, when the chartered plane left the runway.


State law requires that all certified water purity reports be submitted to the appropriate state and local authorities. I never received the report directly. Indirectly, I was told by an attorney that the sample was the property of the State H&S Dept. and it contained waste products from methamphetamine production that exceeded federal standards. In addition there were excessive levels of chemicals used by the municipal drinking water treatment plant that produced chloroform in the water, another federal violation. To receive the true report I was told to file a FOIA request.



The water purity test adventure cost me about $3,000. 00.



What does this mean?







.

[wahoonc]

Originally Posted by sajohnson

Yep, I'm guessing most we come across are the standard type.

Yours seem to be installed properly. I imagine some are installed without enough gravel, and/or the soil does not 'perc' (absorb water) well -- in which case there's a good chance water will flow back into the hydrant.

~snip~

They were, I did them myself. The hole was 24x24x36 deep, lined with landscape cloth and filled with pea gravel. Then tamped, a piece of cloth on top and 8" of topsoil.

Aaron

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by wahoonc

They were, I did them myself. The hole was 24x24x36 deep, lined with landscape cloth and filled with pea gravel. Then tamped, a piece of cloth on top and 8" of topsoil.

Aaron

Excellent work young man!

I wouldn't even attempt that here -- it's nothing but clay and rock.

It's difficult to drive in a T-post.

[Shedboy]

For Navion/View boondockers -------- lower the rear awning support to form a canopy ramp for rainwater collection. Put a bucket under the low point. Works at the beach as well for morning fog collection., Need an under sink filter because the pressure is supplied by the pump. No city water pressure available. Be sure to sanitize, seagulls.may poop on the awning. A second water pump can be rigged to receive power from the trailer electrical jack and with a long extension cord and hose can pump water from a stream or lake, sanitation required. Takes up valuable space in cargo bay........



re drinking water contamination - in general, finding and eliminating the contamination source is preferable to trying to de-contaminate. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure......

[Morich]

Part of the question has to start out with what the source has and what each state may requirein testing. There are the federal standards and they are supposed to be used but that only goes as far as the local and state wants them. If you live in the more advanced areas and states, you are likely to get good water from public supplies and it is tested routinely to make sure the results are good.
But then you get into the backward areas like the South and Texas and it can all fall apart if the local and state are more interested in saving money than saving lives!

I did water treatment work in Missouri and Illinois before moving here and it is just scary to watch how water is treated here, even as close to Austin as we are!
People are basicly considered throw away/disposable in many cases when it comes to public protection.

Working water treatment and watching over a community well in a rural area along the Missouri-Arkansas line, I got a good look at why water needs to be checked and treated if needed.
Just across the line at Cricket, Ar there is a federal contaminated site where there was a creosote plant at one time and the site has never been cleaned up. The creosote has leached into the ground to a depth that is not considered practical to dig out and dispose of, so it is gradually moving further and further out from the site and logic says it will eventually get across the state line and into the wells near Branson, Mo.
We were aware of the threat and did both the testing and monitoring as well as adding chlorine treatment for any other problems like E.Coli from septic systems that fail.

I then moved to a job working on water softeners and part of the area was Southern Illinois where there is coal and Missouri where there was iron as well as folks using water from wells near the Mississippi and Missouri Rivers!
Looking at testing and public safety in those areas and then moving here was a shock as the attitude is just totally different!

In those two states, safety was considered vital and the state made sure! Here in Texas, we have people living within 20 miles of Austin and have no running water to the house!
Too much trouble for the state?
Instead they have a standpipe where folks fill the tank truck from what looks like a fire hose that hangs out in the elements/ dirt and grime full time and haul it home to drink!
Lots of poor people die from strange diseases around here!

When we travel, we need to consider where the water comes from and who watches for safety. If you are in Texas, consider doing it yourself as the state is in charge and they don't care if you die--just as long as they can cover it up!

[Ray,IN]

Originally Posted by S.Rodimus

Under the galley sink water filtration.... if we're not actually drinking that water (only using it to wash dishes or boil pasta in), is filtering really necessary? Our rig has a filter system already built in, so we can at this point simply get a new cartridge. But do y'all really even bother with these things if all your into-your-body water comes from bottles?

The under-counter drinking water filter also filters water for the ice maker, so unless you're buying your ice you need the carbon-block water filter.