Basement AC not blowing cold air.

[tommymsw]

[QUOTE=BlueMoose105;3821773]Tommy,


"Another thing that stood out to me was about the brushes and slip rings. I didn't notice anything about how many hours the generator has run, but the condition of the brushes and slip rings would be good thing to look if your generator has several thousand hours on it, even if you wind up having to replace the voltage regulator (VR)."

------- Would this stop the generator from increasing idle under load though? My gennie also used to "pulse" (rev up and down) when not under load... It no longer does that.




"Also check the VR connection. Disconnect the VR and look at the contacts for corrosion. I would clean the corrosion with an Electrical Contact Cleaner spray, and use a dielectric grease on the contacts before reassembling the connector."

--- The VR is out and I have inspected it. No noticeable problems. Contacts look OK.

[tommymsw]

So I did the diode check and I think it all looks good? Other than the 10-5 pair that is supposed to read "open". They say that each model reads "open" differently and I have no idea how mine reads "open"... I can't find a manual for it online. But the 10-5 pair reads 1 still (as they all do) and maybe that is supposed to change to ANYTHING other than 1? I also set the diode check to 2K (not sure if that was correct)

if I set it to 200 (lowest setting), I get the same result, only the number jumps to 150-190 before returning to zero. 10-5 however, just remains at zero

[tommymsw]

I've also waited too long on this. I am leaving Tuesday and now there is no way for me to get the part delivered before then. Looks like I am without a generator for my cross country trip. :(

[BobC]

Drive over a couple of speed bumps, maybe that will fix it!

Have a good trip, your generator isn't the worst thing that could be broken.

[tommymsw]

No A/C for a trip to Arizona in the summer? It is dang close to the worst thing.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by tommymsw

No A/C for a trip to Arizona in the summer? It is dang close to the worst thing.

Are hook-ups out of the question or are you talking about running it while driving?

[tommymsw]

Originally Posted by BobC

Are hook-ups out of the question or are you talking about running it while driving?

I am not 100% sure about hook-ups. I have not been able to test. I assume it is ONLY the generator... But even if it IS just while driving (and straying overnight at rest stops) it will not be ideal. It is bad timing for sure.

[tommymsw]

Can anybody help me with my multi-meter readings?

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by tommymsw

So I did the diode check and I think it all looks good? Other than the 10-5 pair that is supposed to read "open". They say that each model reads "open" differently and I have no idea how mine reads "open"... I can't find a manual for it online. But the 10-5 pair reads 1 still (as they all do) and maybe that is supposed to change to ANYTHING other than 1? I also set the diode check to 2K (not sure if that was correct)

if I set it to 200 (lowest setting), I get the same result, only the number jumps to 150-190 before returning to zero. 10-5 however, just remains at zero

If you are reporting your results correctly, I am seeing that the 10-5 pair is showing a short. What is causing this? This is pointing toward your failure.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by tommymsw

I am not 100% sure about hook-ups. I have not been able to test. I assume it is ONLY the generator... But even if it IS just while driving (and straying overnight at rest stops) it will not be ideal. It is bad timing for sure.

As far as driving is concerned, I saw a posting either here or on IRV2 about hanging a curtain behind the cockpit to help the chassis A/C keep the cockpit cooler, using this to hang the curtain from:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Good luck and I hope you track down the problem.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by tommymsw

So I did the diode check and I think it all looks good? Other than the 10-5 pair that is supposed to read "open". They say that each model reads "open" differently and I have no idea how mine reads "open"... I can't find a manual for it online. But the 10-5 pair reads 1 still (as they all do) and maybe that is supposed to change to ANYTHING other than 1? I also set the diode check to 2K (not sure if that was correct)

if I set it to 200 (lowest setting), I get the same result, only the number jumps to 150-190 before returning to zero. 10-5 however, just remains at zero

I'm not sure about the settings you mention. They sound like resistance settings to me and may have some function relating to testing of actual diodes. In your case you're not testing a diode but are using the diode check function to test "continuity" which is either open or short. If your meter's diode test function also emits a tone, then tone=short, no tone=open. If you have this setting, try it. You shouldn't have to split hairs on a short/open determination.

Hold your two meter probes together, creating a "true short". If it reads 1, then 1=short. A tone also means short. If 10-5 reads 1 or emits a tone, it is a short, not open, and therefore faulty.

If your meter reads 0 for the "true short" then the above is reversed, although the tone will still equal a short.

Either way, if all the pairs read 1, the regulator is faulty, since 10-5 should read different from the others.

I hope I'm not misreading your description and repeating what you already know.

[tommymsw]

No tome on 10-5. Reads 1.
But the troubleshooting instructions read " Replace the voltage
regulator if any reading indicates “short” or “open“,
except for pair 10-5, which should indicate “open”. "

So NO TONE nad a reading of ONE on 10-5... Means "open" or no?

[BobC]

Originally Posted by tommymsw

No tome on 10-5. Reads 1.
But the troubleshooting instructions read " Replace the voltage
regulator if any reading indicates “short” or “open“,
except for pair 10-5, which should indicate “open”. "

So NO TONE nad a reading of ONE on 10-5... Means "open" or no?

So, here's exactly what the manual says:

[I]With the meter on “Diode Check”, test between
connector terminal pairs 5-9,7-9,lO-9,ll-9,12-9,
10-5, 5-11, 5-12 and 5-3 (Figure 8-13). It is important
that the positive lead of the meter be connected
to the first terminal of each pair. Replace the voltage
regulator if any reading indicates “short” or “open“,
except for pair 10-5, which should indicate “open”.
“Short” is indicated by zero or a number very nearly zero.
Meters of different make indicate “open” differently.[I]

1. Note the comment about the proper placement of the positive and negative leads.

2. 10-5 should definitely be open, meaning no tone. The display reading will vary by meter type but should be the same as you see on your meter when your probes aren't touching anything. This may, in fact be a 1 (or 0 or something else, depending on your meter). The only way to tell is to touch your probes together.

3. The other readings will vary depending on your meter but I assume you should never see a reading that is identical to what you get with your probes touching each other (tone) or when the probes are separated (no tone). This is very confusing since you don't really know what a "good" reading is, other than for 10-5.

Tone definitely means short.

For example, my meter reads as follows (I determined this by touching and then separating the probes):

Open (probes separated)- Display = .0L, no tone
Short (probes touching) - Display = .000 (after settling down from .040 or so), tone sounds.

Since my regulator is still on my generator, I can't tell you how my meter would react to the different measurements.

I hope this helps.

[tommymsw]

I get 0 when touching the probes together, and 1 on EVERY connection (knowing that HOT is the first number in the instructions). So what you are saying is that the regulator works as it should? Then I have no idea why it stopped idling up when it needs more amps. The problem is NOT that it does not send enough electricity... It for SURE just STOPPED idling up. The "throttle" (if that is the right word) is for SURE not working right.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by tommymsw

I get 0 when touching the probes together, and 1 on EVERY connection (knowing that HOT is the first number in the instructions). So what you are saying is that the regulator works as it should? Then I have no idea why it stopped idling up when it needs more amps. The problem is NOT that it does not send enough electricity... It for SURE just STOPPED idling up. The "throttle" (if that is the right word) is for SURE not working right.

Tommy, let me try to get your thinking in the correct direction about the meter. Lets forget the generator for a moment.

The meter leads usually plug into the meter. Some very cheap models have the leads permanently wired. Lets talk removable leads here. The red led has to be in plugged into the + port and the black lead into the - port.

Some meter have a diode test position. Lets not bother with it. Set your meter to ohms, as I think you have been doing. Touch the leads together. On any scale you will read "0". This is a common meter and lead test we always use before doing any testing. If you don't read "0" at this point the meter or leads is defective in some fashion.

Now, with the meter working correctly, measure the resistance of a plain old light bulb. Do this for each scale and note the difference in the reading. You are looking at the resistance of the filament. If you compare different bulbs of the same or different wattage's you will note differences in the readings. This is all good for each bulb is unique in tolerance.

Lets now consider the diodes you are trying to test. These can be considered electrical check valves. In one direction they pass and in the other direction they don't. So, if your pair 10-5 reads a number in both directions it is not working correctly. Remember, as the numbers approaches "0" the resistance is reducing. Any reading is not "OPEN".

I hope this helps with your troubleshooting thinking. We all want to see you succeed here and hit the road, ready for a fun time camping.
Waiting for your success story.
Rick

[BobC]

Originally Posted by tommymsw

I get 0 when touching the probes together, and 1 on EVERY connection (knowing that HOT is the first number in the instructions). So what you are saying is that the regulator works as it should? Then I have no idea why it stopped idling up when it needs more amps. The problem is NOT that it does not send enough electricity... It for SURE just STOPPED idling up. The "throttle" (if that is the right word) is for SURE not working right.

1. Rick's suggestion is a good one. If you set your meter to measure resistance (ohms), you should get some sort of reading on everything but 10-5, which should read the same as you get with your probes separated. The 200 ohm setting should work. The instructions say that the other connections shouldn't be a pure short or pure open, which I would think means something other than a 0 or a 1. I suspect the 0/1 reading on your meter isn't sensitive enough.

2. From what I read on some of the links that have been shared in this thread, there are numerous mechanical problems that could cause this, no matter how improbable you think they might be.

If I were in your position, before I trusted any, admittedly confusing meter readings and assumed it was good or bad, I'd at least have the regulator checked by a qualified Onan repair shop.

Since you've already removed it, I would think the charge would be minimal if not free. If they say it's bad, it's a simple fix, buy a new one and install it. Even if there are additional problems, you'd have had to replace it anyway. If it was a $25 part, I'd just buy one and see what happens, but for $300, I wouldn't trust just my readings as to if it was OK or not.

If the shop says the regulator is OK, then I think you're better off paying a qualified shop to sort things out. If you don't have a solid understanding of what your doing, you can make a mess of things and end up spending more in the long run (don't ask me how I know this).

[tommymsw]

The directions for testing seem pretty clear to me. It is either a 1 or a 0.

"With the meter on “Diode Check”, test between
connector terminal pairs 5-9,7-9,lO-9,ll-9,12-9,
10-5, 5-11, 5-12 and 5-3 (Figure 8-13). It is important
that the positive lead of the meter be connected to the first terminal of each pair. Replace the voltage
regulator if any reading indicates “short” or “open“,
except for pair 10-5, which should indicate “open”.
“Short” is indicated by zero or a number very nearly zero.
Meters of different make indicate “open” differently.

what I take from this is ALL of the connections listed should read (1) and they do. But I am not sure what 10-5 should read as I am not sure what "open" is on my meter. In my case, 10-5 also reads (1). I am inclined to think it should NOT read (1).

I do have a diode test function on my meter. When I test the connections in that mode, I get a bunch of different numbers (150-180) and I believe that is right. When I test 10-5, I still only get (1). No beep. When I reverse the probes on 10-5, I still get (1).

For sure I understand the meter readings. I am just confused with 10-5 as the instructions are not clear to me. If it said "1 is bad", I would get it.

But it does seem like maybe 10-5 is wrong here. I would expect SOME kind of reading change from it or at least a "beep" in one direction.

Also, from what I have read they said that the VR is almost always the #1 cause of this problem and they they have to be replaced quite often. And again, the ONLY thing the generator is NOT doing is throttling up with more draw.

[BobC]

You say that the diode test function gives you a bunch of numbers on all the pairs except 10-5. So far, so good, all the other pairs are OK. They're neither short nor open.

Now, with respect to 10-5: 10-5 should be open. When you crossed your probes, you say you got a zero, this means that zero = short, also tone=short. This means that 1 = open as does no tone. If 10-5 shows a 1 and doesn't sound a tone, it is open.

Therefore, from what you've told us, the meter readings are indicating that the regulator is good.

The VR may almost always be the cause but "almost" isn't "always". My previous advice still holds, get the VR checked professionally to be absolutely sure. If the professionals say it's good, then I'd seriously consider having them figure it out from there. In the long run, I think you're going to be ahead by doing so.

[tommymsw]

Originally Posted by BobC

You say that the diode test function gives you a bunch of numbers on all the pairs except 10-5. So far, so good, all the other pairs are OK. They're neither short nor open.

Now, with respect to 10-5: 10-5 should be open. When you crossed your probes, you say you got a zero, this means that zero = short, also tone=short. This means that 1 = open as does no tone. If 10-5 shows a 1 and doesn't sound a tone, it is open.

Therefore, from what you've told us, the meter readings are indicating that the regulator is good.

The VR may almost always be the cause but "almost" isn't "always". My previous advice still holds, get the VR checked professionally to be absolutely sure. If the professionals say it's good, then I'd seriously consider having them figure it out from there. In the long run, I think you're going to be ahead by doing so.

That is just very confusing though. 1 is OPEN and also NOT OPEN? I would think "open" means that electricity CAN pass though it. It is just strange that the directions mention 10-5 should be different, if it is actually supposed to be exactly the same. I get a (1) reading off of ALL the connections. That would seem "closed" to me.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by tommymsw

That is just very confusing though. 1 is OPEN and also NOT OPEN? I would think "open" means that electricity CAN pass though it. It is just strange that the directions mention 10-5 should be different, if it is actually supposed to be exactly the same. I get a (1) reading off of ALL the connections. That would seem "closed" to me.

No, you have it backwards. "Open" means the circuit has a gap and electricity can't flow. Short means the circuit is connected with no resistance and electricity will flow. Anything else will allow some flow, at least in one direction. A true "open" circuit will read open in both directions and will not allow electricity to flow in either direction. A true "short" will also read short in both directions and will allow electricity to flow in both directions. 1 is not both open and not open.

Based on your earlier post, when you touched your probes together, your meter read 0. This means 0 = short. If it reads 1 when they're separated, 1= open. If it reads something other than 1 when separated, than that reading means open. Without my being able to test your meter, I can't advise you on anything but 0 = short.

Diodes are devices that are open in one direction and short (or almost short) in the other, allowing electricity to only flow in one direction.

I don't mean to be condescending but, it's clear to me that you don't have a firm grounding in electrical measurements and in the nuances of your meter. Given that, you're asking for trouble and are likely to make an expensive error one way or the other.

Please get your VR checked professionally so you can move pass this.