Coleman Air Conditioner / Heat Pump failures

[Robmat]

Has anyone have had issues with the Coleman Air Conditioner / Heat pump roof units? I have had both my AC/HP's fail on my 2015 Sunova. The symptoms are the fans work but no AC or no Heat. First the rear unit went out last August and this March the front unit went out. Both are covered by the 3 year Coleman warranty. The first was replaced quickly by Coleman and the second unit they wouldn't replace it and insisted on sending parts to the dealer to install. After second unit still didn't work with the new parts Coleman then said they would send a replacement unit which will arrive sometime next week. It's coming up to four weeks in the shop. Just wondering if this is a widespread problem.

[Ranger Smith]

I had problems with our Journey. Front heat pump would not work. . . Bad control module. They sent me one and I replaced it. Rear unit kept cycling every 2 minutes. Another bad control module.

[Atom Ant]

Ours is in right now getting fixed. On ours Zone 3 is just AC, but it's still a Coleman Mach 8. Dealer said burned wires and bad control relay (board). Waiting for parts. The front is a critical AC on the 42E, as it fights off all that heat from the cab windows.

[Old Crows]

Mach 8s have had problems with the condenser fan failing for several years. The fan blade grenades and sometimes takes out the condensed and/or other bits. A redesigned fan was fielded early 2015 which appears to be working OK.

They are extremely noisy unless refitted with the upgraded "elf ear " three bladed fan to replace the six bladed air beater.

I'm not aware of any board/controller issues....but anything is possible.

IMHO, the units suffer from poor QA/QC and materials. E.g., poor fan choice/design required at least two "do overs" to get it right; rubber weather seals and sheathing on wiring is not engineered for high temps and out door conditions (splits, tears, cracks in a year). Poor engineering of the compressor piping (it vibrates against the underside of the bonnet); the new "elf ear" fan blade just barely clears an electical box requiring precision adjustment with a mallet; rubber feet/isolators/mounts on the condenser fan break. Last, the bonnet is made out of thin, flexible, resin. It vibrates and resonates like a drumhead in operation contributing to the noise.

Other than that...when its working it cools and heats OK.

Search this forum for Coleman ...heat pump...Mach 8 ....

[Atom Ant]

Originally Posted by Old Crows

They are extremely noisy unless refitted with the upgraded "elf ear " three bladed fan to replace the six bladed air beater.

Interesting, are the upgrade fans easily available? Do you have to pull the AC or can you get in from the cover?

[peterson]

My old eyes could read the OP easier if it wasn't in all italics.

[Old Crows]

Originally Posted by Atom Ant

Interesting, are the upgrade fans easily available? Do you have to pull the AC or can you get in from the cover?

Yes they are. Replaced by removing bonnet.

Hold on a couple hours & I'll post a link to a photo essay for you. Based on what I found under the bonnet, I did a bit more than just replace the fan.

[DancinCampers]

Our units are Mach 8 model 49023-879. Condenser fan is 12 blade. RVP said they do not have a replacement blade to make our quieter.
So far only maintenance issue was having to replace the condensate pump on the front unit this spring. Found out that the condensate pump runs anytime the compressor is running, even in electric heat mode.

[smlranger]

Originally Posted by Old Crows

Mach 8s have had problems with the condenser fan failing for several years. The fan blade grenades and sometimes takes out the condensed and/or other bits. A redesigned fan was fielded early 2015 which appears to be working OK.

They are extremely noisy unless refitted with the upgraded "elf ear " three bladed fan to replace the six bladed air beater.

I'm not aware of any board/controller issues....but anything is possible.

IMHO, the units suffer from poor QA/QC and materials. E.g., poor fan choice/design required at least two "do overs" to get it right; rubber weather seals and sheathing on wiring is not engineered for high temps and out door conditions (splits, tears, cracks in a year). Poor engineering of the compressor piping (it vibrates against the underside of the bonnet); the new "elf ear" fan blade just barely clears an electical box requiring precision adjustment with a mallet; rubber feet/isolators/mounts on the condenser fan break. Last, the bonnet is made out of thin, flexible, resin. It vibrates and resonates like a drumhead in operation contributing to the noise.

Other than that...when its working it cools and heats OK.

Search this forum for Coleman ...heat pump...Mach 8 ....

You are right on about the current Coleman Mach 8. I just replaced one of my 10 year old 15K Coleman heat pumps with a Mach 8. Compared to the old unit removed from the coach, the new one looks like a dime store piece of crap. Everything about it looks flimsy and cheap. It is more noisy than the older units. I had wanted to use my old shroud which is painted to match the coach on the new heat pump. It will not fit of course and the new shroud is paper thin and flimsy.

[Atom Ant]

Originally Posted by Old Crows

Yes they are. Replaced by removing bonnet.

Hold on a couple hours & I'll post a link to a photo essay for you. Based on what I found under the bonnet, I did a bit more than just replace the fan.

That would be cool, thanks!

On edit - found the post! http://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/rvp-...it-210236.html Read through all the pages and understand he first retrofits had some issues with breaking and the latest is a "D" model.

Noticed Camping World was selling the B model, at a 100% markup of course

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...itioners/78544

[Lv2Roam2]

I have 3 of the 13.5s ... one of them began cooling intermittently while the fan consistently operated. You could hear the compressor 'click in' and then stall. I replaced the start/run capacitors with some success but no real fix. Our servicing dealer talked with AirExcel - the basic fix was to cut one of the 'limiter' wires - all is fine now.

That's all I know - but if another A/C goes out we'll start the search there...

[Duner]

Check to be sure you are getting at least 110vac right at the a/c unit. Low voltage is very hard on the starting components (capacitor and relays) and continuous low voltage makes the compressors run a lot hotter. Anything around 100 vac will really shorten their life.

In a 30 amp section of a rv park when everyone is running a/c the voltage can drop way down and you can very easily burn up the electrical components.

I have a Hughes Autoformer which keeps the voltage around 120 vac and my Coleman unit has not had any electrical issues in 12 yrs of use, including 6 yrs of fulltiming. I highly recommend the Hughes unit to protect your a/c, microwave, and electronics. Price & specs here.

[Robmat]

Originally Posted by Duner

Check to be sure you are getting at least 110vac right at the a/c unit. Low voltage is very hard on the starting components (capacitor and relays) and continuous low voltage makes the compressors run a lot hotter. Anything around 100 vac will really shorten their life.

In a 30 amp section of a rv park when everyone is running a/c the voltage can drop way down and you can very easily burn up the electrical components.

I have a Hughes Autoformer which keeps the voltage around 120 vac and my Coleman unit has not had any electrical issues in 12 yrs of use, including 6 yrs of fulltiming. I highly recommend the Hughes unit to protect your a/c, microwave, and electronics. Price & specs here.

I have never heard of the Hughes Autoformer I have a Progressive 50 Amp portable Electrical Management system which protects the units from low voltage situations. Do they do the same thing?

[Steve Ownby]

Originally Posted by Robmat

I have never heard of the Hughes Autoformer I have a Progressive 50 Amp portable Electrical Management system which protects the units from low voltage situations. Do they do the same thing?

They are very different devices, although the Hughes has surge protection. The Hughes boosts voltage when it detects a voltage level down around 116 VAC. At that point it provides a voltage boost of 10%. I have a Hughes in front of my Progressive EMS. The Hughes prevents the Progressive from seeing low voltage and cutting power to the coach. Best of both worlds.

[flaggship1]

Originally Posted by Steve Ownby

They are very different devices, although the Hughes has surge protection. The Hughes boosts voltage when it detects a voltage level down around 116 VAC. At that point it provides a voltage boost of 10%. I have a Hughes in front of my Progressive EMS. The Hughes prevents the Progressive from seeing low voltage and cutting power to the coach. Best of both worlds.

Same here except I have the Power Master VC50 (no longer in production) in front of the PI EMS - and since replacing the transfer switch I now have two EMS cause the new transfer switch has the same features as the PI EMS.

While the autoformer / voltage controllers are more expensive than EMS, I let it be sacrificial to surge. If I had to without one it be the autoformer.

[Old Crows]

Originally Posted by Atom Ant

Interesting, are the upgrade fans easily available? Do you have to pull the AC or can you get in from the cover?

Atom.....

Sorry for the delay. Overtaken by events......

Here is a linky to an old thread on the Coleman Mach 8 issues. Lots of good info here......

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f101/cole...de-249699.html

In Post #8, there is a link to my assessment and modification to my Mach 8 that IMHO pretty much solves the noise problem. Like any AC unit they have an inherent noise level. Mine was so noisy outside that you could hear it whining away over the A/C noise of several near by coaches when you were 150' away. Across the RV park actually...... annoying. And annoying to neighbors...


After modifying my unit, you can now stand next to the starboard side duals and have a normal conversation. From some distance away, you will barely hear it. Inside is much better.

I did all this work and installed what was, at the time, the 'updated' fan a "C" version. The "C" version was as lousy as the previous versions and was quietly replaced sometime in early '15 with a "D" version. AFAIK, the latest and greatest version is PN 1472D504.

If you pull the bonnet you can see the fan. Obviously, if you see the 6 blade
Cuisinart style its not the latest version. If it's a 'mouse ear/elf ear' design, look on the top of the fan for the PN or a sticker. If it's not a "D" version, it's not the latest and greatest piece of work.

In my write up, I didn't mention another consideration for 'hushing' the unit.

If you remove the inside return vent that holds the filter media, you can look up into the underside of the unit. There's two issues.

First, if you have the 'Chill Grill' return vent that is often used on front mounted AC's to allow more chilled air come out near the return..... you don't want to do this.

If you have a conventional ducted unit without the 'Chill Grill,' consider using aluminum foil duct tape to seal off the air flow leakiing from the 'Chill Grill's' venting on the underside of the unit. And plugging all the other leaks.... of which there are many..... This will put more air in to the duct system and reduce the 'blow by' and noise in the return plenum.

You may do this.....The plenum is poor design ... and why would we be surprised????

Basically, square boxes stair stepped up to the small narrow return air opening for the circulation fan. This boxy, stair step design creates turbulence and noise in the return system. You can cut down on a lot of the intake noise by making a 'turning vane' to smooth the air flow to the ridiculously small rough opening leading to the fan. I used a thin piece of blue foam insulation cut to shape. Once I got the shape right I gently bent it into a curve shape leading from the back of the unit upward to the fan opening. I covered it in aluminum foil tape and sealed all the open edges. Now there's a smoother curve for the air to flow from the large opening to the small opening to the fan intake. This lets the slower moving air gently and smoothly accelerate to the fan. Smoother is better.

There are two things you can not easily cure in the noise area. That is the 'rumble' created by the 'fan on as stick' circulating fan. The fan motor is locked down in cheesy rubber mounts and the squirrel cage fan is cantilevered to the side about 12" +. That design is damn near impossible to properly balance as the rotating mass is at the end of the 'stick' without a support bearing..... So you get a low frequency rumble when it's running that transmits back to the cheesy mounts>to the unit>to the RV roof. There is NADA that you may do to cure it.

The second item is 'rumble' created by the compressor when it's running. Again.... cheesy rubber mountings transmit the vibration to the unit & coach.

Is all this stuff worth the effort? IMHO yes. Is the unit as quiet as the TRANE system in my house? NO! But it is a hell of a lot less noisy inside and out.

[Atom Ant]

Originally Posted by Old Crows

Atom.....

Sorry for the delay. Overtaken by events......

Here is a linky to an old thread on the Coleman Mach 8 issues. Lots of good info here......

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f101/cole...de-249699.html

In Post #8, there is a link to my assessment and modification to my Mach 8 that IMHO pretty much solves the noise problem. Like any AC unit they have an inherent noise level. Mine was so noisy outside that you could hear it whining away over the A/C noise of several near by coaches when you were 150' away. Across the RV park actually...... annoying. And annoying to neighbors...


After modifying my unit, you can now stand next to the starboard side duals and have a normal conversation. From some distance away, you will barely hear it. Inside is much better.

I did all this work and installed what was, at the time, the 'updated' fan a "C" version. The "C" version was as lousy as the previous versions and was quietly replaced sometime in early '15 with a "D" version. AFAIK, the latest and greatest version is PN 1472D504.

If you pull the bonnet you can see the fan. Obviously, if you see the 6 blade
Cuisinart style its not the latest version. If it's a 'mouse ear/elf ear' design, look on the top of the fan for the PN or a sticker. If it's not a "D" version, it's not the latest and greatest piece of work.

In my write up, I didn't mention another consideration for 'hushing' the unit.

If you remove the inside return vent that holds the filter media, you can look up into the underside of the unit. There's two issues.

First, if you have the 'Chill Grill' return vent that is often used on front mounted AC's to allow more chilled air come out near the return..... you don't want to do this.

If you have a conventional ducted unit without the 'Chill Grill,' consider using aluminum foil duct tape to seal off the air flow leakiing from the 'Chill Grill's' venting on the underside of the unit. And plugging all the other leaks.... of which there are many..... This will put more air in to the duct system and reduce the 'blow by' and noise in the return plenum.

You may do this.....The plenum is poor design ... and why would we be surprised????

Basically, square boxes stair stepped up to the small narrow return air opening for the circulation fan. This boxy, stair step design creates turbulence and noise in the return system. You can cut down on a lot of the intake noise by making a 'turning vane' to smooth the air flow to the ridiculously small rough opening leading to the fan. I used a thin piece of blue foam insulation cut to shape. Once I got the shape right I gently bent it into a curve shape leading from the back of the unit upward to the fan opening. I covered it in aluminum foil tape and sealed all the open edges. Now there's a smoother curve for the air to flow from the large opening to the small opening to the fan intake. This lets the slower moving air gently and smoothly accelerate to the fan. Smoother is better.

There are two things you can not easily cure in the noise area. That is the 'rumble' created by the 'fan on as stick' circulating fan. The fan motor is locked down in cheesy rubber mounts and the squirrel cage fan is cantilevered to the side about 12" +. That design is damn near impossible to properly balance as the rotating mass is at the end of the 'stick' without a support bearing..... So you get a low frequency rumble when it's running that transmits back to the cheesy mounts>to the unit>to the RV roof. There is NADA that you may do to cure it.

The second item is 'rumble' created by the compressor when it's running. Again.... cheesy rubber mountings transmit the vibration to the unit & coach.

Is all this stuff worth the effort? IMHO yes. Is the unit as quiet as the TRANE system in my house? NO! But it is a hell of a lot less noisy inside and out.

Thanks a bunch Old Crow! I'll pull the bonnets when I get it back form the Dealer (they found a burned control relay in the front AC). I found the kits, and downloaded the instructions from Coleman for the "D" version.

I have never really liked any low profile units, and the noise inside from these was very disappointing. We had the full size Coleman ACs on our 5er that were fully ducted and they were whisper quiet with a thinner roof.

[Old Crows]

Atom, we had the old "high tops" on our TT and a Class B Sprinter based RV. I agree the low-pro Mach 8s are really loud in comparison. They are not engineered for sound reduction inside or out. It can be easily done. Duct noise is likely due to poorly designed ducts (too small, fan speed too high, bends and obstructions in the ducts, and even the vent design). For sure the four AC roof vents in the rear of my Sienna van don't racket like the RV .... even when on high blower.

It does help to put the fan on "Lo" to reduce the duct noise. Also, improves cooling and dehumidification by allowing the air to spend more time over the expansion coil.

Let me know how things work out......

Cheers!

[Atom Ant]

Originally Posted by Old Crows

Atom, we had the old "high tops" on our TT and a Class B Sprinter based RV. I agree the low-pro Mach 8s are really loud in comparison. They are not engineered for sound reduction inside or out. It can be easily done. Duct noise is likely due to poorly designed ducts (too small, fan speed too high, bends and obstructions in the ducts, and even the vent design). For sure the four AC roof vents in the rear of my Sienna van don't racket like the RV .... even when on high blower.

It does help to put the fan on "Lo" to reduce the duct noise. Also, improves cooling and dehumidification by allowing the air to spend more time over the expansion coil.

Let me know how things work out......

Cheers!

will do. Hoping I can pick it up this week.

[Robmat]

UPDATE - Picked up my coach on Thursday just before a well planned in advance weekend trip. The service advisor told me that there are two capacitors located on the top of the Coleman unit and they were both fried and Coleman didn't want to cover them as they felt the coach got hit with lightning or a power surge. When my dealer told them we have a surge protector they relented and honored the warranty sending the dealer a replacement unit. Everything worked well this weekend in 80 degree plus heat. Nonetheless just shy of four weeks to get a resolution to the issue.