Only 1 amp shorepower

[gromhome]

Left for a few minutes today and came home to find one prong of the shore power plug had burnt a hole in the plug and toasted the surge protector as well (plug and play surge protector). Got a replacement surge protector and a new plug end and replaced them both. When I power up I have only 1 amp on the SP display and only 1 amp on my Power line EMS. Played around a bit but no change. Unplugged from shore power and started the Genny and everything works. Took the cover off the ATS and nothing looks burnt inside. Haven't checked further as it's 35 degrees outside and dark. Running one Genny right now watching Hogan's Heroes. Tomorrow is another day for troubleshooting.


Any thoughts on my dilemma?


Richard
2003 Adventurer 33V, Ford chassis

[AZAspect]

I would think the issue lies with the SP since the EMS is only showing 1 amp and the generator running is fine. It could be the EMS being new, but doubtful. Is there another pedestal that you could test the EMS on?

My next move would be to meter the SP plug and see what you have. Try those two things and see what you have, then go from there. Good luck!

Al

p.s. Gotta love Hogan's Heroes! Classic!

[gromhome]

In the darkness, cold, and hunger last night I inadvertently crossed the ground and neutral wires. It won't work that way, let me tell you. Wiring it correctly this morning it is all better. The RV park owner put a new recept in the pedestal to be on the safe side. He said in 35 years of doing this he's had more problems with 30 amp than 50 amp and they usually burn through the ground, which mine did.


Moral of the story - I should have gone in to watch Hogan's Heroes sooner.


Thank you to Az Pete for the response. You are appreciated.


Richard Grom

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by gromhome

In the darkness, cold, and hunger last night I inadvertently crossed the ground and neutral wires. It won't work that way, let me tell you. Wiring it correctly this morning it is all better. The RV park owner put a new recept in the pedestal to be on the safe side. He said in 35 years of doing this he's had more problems with 30 amp than 50 amp and they usually burn through the ground, which mine did.


Moral of the story - I should have gone in to watch Hogan's Heroes sooner.


Thank you to Az Pete for the response. You are appreciated.


Richard Grom

Hi Richard,

I'm glad to hear everything is OK now.

Just curious -- how were you able to cross the ground and neutral wires?

[gromhome]

Had the green wire on the neutral post of the plug and the white on the ground post. Again, I was cold, tired, hungry, and it was dark. Put the wires on the correct posts and everything is all better.

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by gromhome

Had the green wire on the neutral post of the plug and the white on the ground post. Again, I was cold, tired, hungry, and it was dark. Put the wires on the correct posts and everything is all better.

No judgment here. We've all done stuff like that.

I was only asking because what I envisioned was someone simply inserting a plug into an outlet.

So you were actually connecting the plug to the cable?

[gromhome]

I was putting a new plug (male) on the shore cord. The previous plug had over heated the neutral prong and melted the plug and the surge suppressor. Still trying to figure out the over heating issue.

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by gromhome

I was putting a new plug (male) on the shore cord. The previous plug had over heated the neutral prong and melted the plug and the surge suppressor. Still trying to figure out the over heating issue.

That is an interesting problem.

Normally of course, a breaker would trip before that happens -- either the breaker in the pedestal or a breaker in the rig.

One possibility is arcing. If, say, the contacts in the pedestal outlet (or surge suppressor outlet) are lose and/or dirty, that can cause arcing. That may not cause a breaker to trip even though serious damage is being done.

[gromhome]

There had been evidence of a little arcing on the neutral prong of the plug for some time and I just let it go. I'm guessing it built up more and more over the past few months and led to the melt down. After it stops snowing and warms up here on Monday I'm going to disconnect from the surge suppressor and inspect for any new arcing or build up.

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by gromhome

There had been evidence of a little arcing on the neutral prong of the plug for some time and I just let it go. I'm guessing it built up more and more over the past few months and led to the melt down. After it stops snowing and warms up here on Monday I'm going to disconnect from the surge suppressor and inspect for any new arcing or build up.

Sounds good.

What is the make and model of the surge suppressor -- if you have that info handy? I'm asking because there is a wide range of units out there and some of the less expensive ones may have substandard outlet contacts.

[gromhome]

It was a Progressive SSP-30XL. Now I've got a more top of the line Progressive Power Management system, EMS-PT30X. The RV Park owner said that fully 90% of the power problems he has is with the 30 amp rv's. So it goes, my 2003 is 30 amp.

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by gromhome

It was a Progressive SSP-30XL. Now I've got a more top of the line Progressive Power Management system, EMS-PT30X. The RV Park owner said that fully 90% of the power problems he has is with the 30 amp rv's. So it goes, my 2003 is 30 amp.

As far as I know, Progressive makes good units. It will be interesting to hear what you find when you're able to take a closer look at the SSP-30XL.

Your new unit, the EMS-PT30X looks good.

We have the EMS-HW30C:
https://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems-hw30c

I think it's essentially the hardwired version of the PT30X (I didn't look closely).

I'm not necessarily questioning what the RV park owner told you, but that is the first time I've heard a claim like that (90% of the power problems he has are with the 30 amp RV's). I have to wonder:

* On average, what percentage of the rigs are 30 amp?

* Perhaps the owner is seeing such high failure rates with 30A RVs because of some problem(s) with the 30A portion of the park's electrical system?

* Regardless of the distribution (30A vs 50A rigs) how frequent are the power problems he mentions?

If a campground's or park's distribution system is designed properly, electrical problems should be very rare.

FWIW: I just did a Google search for: "what causes RV park electrical outlet contacts to melt" and a lot of what appeared to be good info came up.

One common theme: Loose connections -- wires to terminal screws and/or receptacle/plug contacts.

[Morich]

Originally Posted by gromhome

It was a Progressive SSP-30XL. Now I've got a more top of the line Progressive Power Management system, EMS-PT30X. The RV Park owner said that fully 90% of the power problems he has is with the 30 amp rv's. So it goes, my 2003 is 30 amp.

There may be a clue in what they say here? Thinking of why there would be a high resistance connection to make it overheat, I see it as often being a problem of wear, either on the plug or the outlet or both.
I'll do some guessing here and say there is far more users for 30 amp than 50 amp, meaning an RV park outlet gets more wear on the 30 than the 50. Carry that thought a bit further and you get more wear, more wear means each time we plug/unplug we are more likely to find one which is nearing end of life and beginning to arc more often.
I might also guess that there are far more new users running 30 than 50 as bigger buses likely come with more experienced RV folks? So if we have 30 being used more plus by less experienced who are prone to plugging or unplugging with the power on, I see it would lead to more trouble with 30 -if the park is not solid on routine maintenance and doesn't check or change out an outlet at the first sign of arcing on the contacts. How many times have you looked at a plug and found burn signs all over it but the plug not changed?
My feeling is that the problem is not how much either unit, 30 or 50, is using but how each outlet is left to bite us!

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by Morich

There may be a clue in what they say here? Thinking of why there would be a high resistance connection to make it overheat, I see it as often being a problem of wear, either on the plug or the outlet or both.
I'll do some guessing here and say there is far more users for 30 amp than 50 amp, meaning an RV park outlet gets more wear on the 30 than the 50. Carry that thought a bit further and you get more wear, more wear means each time we plug/unplug we are more likely to find one which is nearing end of life and beginning to arc more often.
I might also guess that there are far more new users running 30 than 50 as bigger buses likely come with more experienced RV folks? So if we have 30 being used more plus by less experienced who are prone to plugging or unplugging with the power on, I see it would lead to more trouble with 30 -if the park is not solid on routine maintenance and doesn't check or change out an outlet at the first sign of arcing on the contacts. How many times have you looked at a plug and found burn signs all over it but the plug not changed?
My feeling is that the problem is not how much either unit, 30 or 50, is using but how each outlet is left to bite us!

Good post Morich, I was thinking the same thing.

One consideration -- I may have misunderstood but I thought 'gromhome' said the outlet that fried was the one on his Progressive Ind. portable surge suppressor (not the pedestal outlet).

[Morich]

Not sure which point was involved but I find it can be the plug rather than the outlet and it can be a combo of either or both which are corroded/arced/ Something that causes resistance to the current flow can cause enough heat to melt one or the other.
I've not had that much trouble with Rv but I did lots of work on old rental property and one of the things I learned to look over was the outlets. Once they get so the plug doesn't hold firm, they can then arc and it just becomes a downhill slide before something gets really hot. So considering how much is involved with even a small fire in an apartment and how little it costs to replace an outlet, I often just replaced many of them as a way to head off the really big headaches.

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by Morich

Not sure which point was involved but I find it can be the plug rather than the outlet and it can be a combo of either or both which are corroded/arced/ Something that causes resistance to the current flow can cause enough heat to melt one or the other.
I've not had that much trouble with Rv but I did lots of work on old rental property and one of the things I learned to look over was the outlets. Once they get so the plug doesn't hold firm, they can then arc and it just becomes a downhill slide before something gets really hot. So considering how much is involved with even a small fire in an apartment and how little it costs to replace an outlet, I often just replaced many of them as a way to head off the really big headaches.

Smart move.

Generally speaking, something many people do not realize is that there are different grades of ordinary 120V/15A outlets:
https://iaeimagazine.org/magazine/fe...-do-they-mean/

As well as 120V/30A and 120V/50A outlets:
https://legacy-uploads.ul.com/wp-con...SepOct2009.pdf


Here's a good column by Mike Sokol:
https://www.rvtravel.com/pedestal-power/

It may not help with this specific problem but it's good general info about how RV outlets are wired, etc.

[WillF]

AZ, Sounds like what happened is called Carbon Tracing. I have seen it happen in 480 motor plugs a lot working in the oil field. Moisture gets into contact with the metal and arcs creating a carbon trail. This trail provides least resistance to ground so power moves in that direction. It heats up as a byproduct and poof, burned out plug. Once the carbon trace is there you can't get rid of it and have to replace the connector like you did. If you were running an AC motor you probably would have had some slower speeds as the power was going neutral before going through the load.