Residential Fridge Question

GaDawgFan · 11-16-2013, 09:14 AM

My 2000 Itasca does not have an inverter. If I were to swap out the Norcold for a residential fridge, am I giving up the ability to run the fridge off 12 volt? We normally don't dry camp, but there are times when I have the motor home at my house with no ability to plug in but would like to keep the fridge running. Also, what brands, models do people recommend?

jerichorick · 11-16-2013, 09:57 AM

A true 'residential refrigerator' runs on 120VAC, PERIOD. No inverter, no working refrigerator when shore power or generator are unavailable.

If you can install a good 'true sine wave' inverter and a bank of house batteries to give you the time on the inverter you need then you can do it.

My residential refrigerator is an option. The option included a 2800 W Magnum true sine wave inverter and a total of 6 AGM batteries. If I don't run heavy loads like the coffee pot or microwave I can get about 7 hrs from the batteries before I need to run the generator.

I don't understand why you don't have an inverter. I take it that you have no AC outlets working when you are not on shore power. Do you have a generator?

You will have to do a bunch of homework about the cost and reliability of the equipment needed to to an upgrade on your coach. You your potential outlay, in my rough estimate, is from 5 to 10 thousand bucks.

Have you considered a newer coach? My DW is a very happy camper in this new to us coach. We needed to get out of the old one because it just was not practical for our needs or pleasures.

You have started your idea about the refrigerator in a great way by coming to irv2. I hope you get a better solution from someone more knowledgeable than I am. In any case, Happy trails.

Rick

docj · 11-16-2013, 10:09 AM

Yes, if you had a residential fridge installed and didn't have an inverter your only option for powering it would be to keep your generator running (I'm assuming you have one.) Traveling for several hours without the fridge having power wouldn't produce a significant problem.

I don't understand why you can't plug your MH in at home using just a standard 15 or 20 amp outlet? We've often done this just to keep power on the fridge when the MH is parked for service at places that don't have RV connections. If you turn most things off inside the RV, 15A is more than enough for the fridge.

Even if you had an inverter it wouldn't be of much use to you at your home without plugging in unless you envisioned this as a very short term situation since the inverter would only power the fridge for a couple of days from your house batteries.

As for brands of residential fridges, lots of RVers are using Samsungs. One reason is that they sell an affordable 24" deep (counter depth) model that fits pretty well into the hole left by a Norcold 1200 series. Also, some Samsung refrigerators can be powered by modified sine wave inverters which are common in MH's.

GaDawgFan · 11-16-2013, 10:09 AM

Thanks for the response. I am the second owner of the coach and the inverter was an option at the time and the original owner opted not to purchase. It is a Diesel pusher and does have a generator. Honestly the lack of an inverter has never been an issue with the exception of the few times we have dry camped. I run 4 Trojan 6 volts on the house side, so rarely have I had battery issues.

Your response matches what I was kind of expecting. Laying out $5,000 for a refrigerator on a 13 year old coach is more than I want to do. I have other projects inside that I am considering such as new or reupholstered furniture.

GaDawgFan · 11-16-2013, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docj

I don't understand why you can't plug your MH in at home using just a standard 15 or 20 amp outlet? We've often done this just to keep power on the fridge when the MH is parked for service at places that don't have RV connections.

You are correct. I could do this, but with the incline of my driveway, I have to park on the street which would require a very long extension cord run. Thanks for you suggestions.

smlranger · 11-16-2013, 10:38 AM

While I understand the reluctance to spend too much money on a 13 yr old coach, I do believe the previously stated cost estimates are high. I replaced the NorCrap fridge in our previous coach (2002 Journey 35GD) with a nice, stainless Frigidaire 18.2 cu ft top freezer residential. The fridge was about $650 on sale at Lowe's with free delivery. In fact, the same fridge is on sale at Lowe's now for about $559 I believe with free delivery.

You already have sufficient house battery power with the Trojan 6V bank. You can get a good 2000W PSW inverter (recommend Magnum Energy) for around $1,500 - $1,600. If you are only going to run the fridge on the inverter, 1,000 watt PSW will do fine. The Frigidaire was pretty energy efficient. Now, if your coach has no wiring for an inverter and no way to get inverter power to a fridge without extensive re-wiring, etc., that may be a show stopper in terms of cost. I am also basing my cost comments on the assumption that you would do the install yourself. I paid $2,000 for a RV remodel shop to do mine since I could not handle the lifting (had back surgery, DW forbid it

).

The Frigidaire fits nicely in the Norcold 1200 space with only minor mods to gain about 1 1/2" of height. The Samsung RF197 that many folks use is nice, for sure, but the extra $$$ you pay for counter depth and the French doors is not necessary. If you already had a MSW inverter, I would recommend the Samsung since it will run on MSW, at least that is what folks say they hear from Samsung.

docj · 11-16-2013, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smlranger

The Samsung RF197 that many folks use is nice, for sure, but the extra $$$ you pay for counter depth and the French doors is not necessary. If you already had a MSW inverter, I would recommend the Samsung since it will run on MSW, at least that is what folks say they hear from Samsung.

For many RVer's the French door are necessary because they limit the space required for the door to swing out. We could have handled a model with a single door but it would have been far less convenient.

Not that it matters to the OP, but the issue of whether or not the RF197 can run on an MSW inverter is not word of mouth or "what they hear from Samsung". In fact it is in print here: Samsung samsung 18 cu. ft. French Door Refrigerator: questions, answers, how to, FAQs, tips, advice, answers, buying guide

In posting this I did notice that Samsung has slightly altered it's response to this question to emphasize that it is important that any inverter used have the ability to deal with an 11.6 A maximum current draw. I assume there have been cases of people buying small, plug-in inverters and trying to use them to power a fridge.

dunkonu23 · 11-16-2013, 11:48 PM

I'm kind of thinking it might be a bit cheaper for the inverter:

2000 Watt Pure Sine Power Inverter 12 Volt by AIMS. With Free Remote., though you may want to get a 3000 watt inverter simply for overhead.

That all said, I'm wondering if your coach was wired for an inverter and due to the option choice of the original owner, the inverter was simply not installed yet the wiring was there for it? It might be worth some digging to find out for sure. If that's the case, then you're golden for getting DC to the inverter. The next hurdle would be getting AC to the fridge, but that's a simple plug.

I do agree about batteries... if you've got a good set of batteries, you should be in good shape. If you don't have a good set of house batteries, you may find finding a spot for them that's safe and modifying the existing charging system wiring and capacities may be too much to do.

Scott

jerichorick · 11-17-2013, 09:29 AM

As far as the wiring goes, your coach may be prewired. Things are not as complex if this is the case. If the breaker panel has both halves required to connect the inverter and the shore power you are in even better shape. As you mentioned about weight and physical ability. These things are HEAVY as they grow in size and features.

If you direct wire an outlet for the new frig from the inverter here is a doable for you and afordable in weight and bucks: http://www.magnumenergy.com/Literatu...a%20Sheet).pdf

Do some price searches and you could save some money. Make certain it is a PSW inverter and NOT a MSW.

Happy trails,
Rick

bachler · 11-17-2013, 08:36 PM

Just a few Facts. "Inverter use" If your Frig; uses 15 amp at 12V. ( I just took 15. Others may use 12 amps For the numbers we don't care For Kick in of the compressor can be up around 20/22 amps Ac =200/220 amps dc.) 15 amps 120ac == 150 amps draw on your 12 dc volt system Pluse any internal;; Perasite draw. so just be awhere of that.. Like MR Srg. Friday said Just the facts Only the Facts.. Life is good.

jerichorick · 11-20-2013, 08:10 AM

My Maytag 3 door residential refrigerator requires 10A 120VAC. Power=Voltage x Amps. So, my unit uses 1200 Watts. That would equate to about 100 A for the battery side of the inverter. This is very doable though it could be expensive if you need a big battery bank.

The inverter I previously suggested will cover your dedicated need. Design your battery bank and cabling for the time you need to be on battery alone.

I have not looked at any of the recommended refrigerator specs. I am certain that they use less power than my large refrigerator. Please research the components in detail and then make your decision.

Happy hunting and happy trails,
Rick

docj · 11-20-2013, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerichorick

My Maytag 3 door residential refrigerator requires 10A 120VAC. Power=Voltage x Amps. So, my unit uses 1200 Watts. That would equate to about 100 A for the battery side of the inverter. This is very doable though it could be expensive if you need a big battery bank.

That has to be a "peak power" requirement. It would be way out of line if it was anything near the average power load. Most equivalent fridges draw ~100 watts average even though they can have peak loads of 10-12 amps.

Duner · 11-21-2013, 02:33 AM

My Samsung 197 Energy Usage Label states 445kwWh per year. If you divide that down to hours, it works out to 50 watts continuous per hour on average. I think the power when compressor running is 150 watts so it would run 20 min per hr on average. My installation is new so time will tell if the calculations are about right.

I have the stock Winnebago Dimensions 2000 msw inverter and 4 DC250 -6V AGM batteries from Full River. The 4 agm batteries cost as much as the fridge, but I like the fact that they charge much faster when dry camping and using the genny to charge the batteries while cooking in the morning and evening.

The Samsung has a "Power Freeze" and "Power Cool" buttons that run the freezer temp from -2 deg setting down to -18 deg and from 38 deg setting down to 26 deg for the fridge side (or 2.5 hrs, which ever comes first). So when dry camping, I plan to use the Power buttons while I run my genny which should reduce the load on the batteries since it will take a while for the temps to warn back up to the set temps.

Happy Trails,
Bill

jerichorick · 11-21-2013, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docj

That has to be a "peak power" requirement. It would be way out of line if it was anything near the average power load. Most equivalent fridges draw ~100 watts average even though they can have peak loads of 10-12 amps.

Yes. From the label. My point is that a 8 A or 1000 watt inverter would be more than enough. I guess I rushed with my information. When I looked at the PMC yesterday while the frig was running I saw 4 A peak AC draw. Add LED lighting to your house battery load and it should last a long time if of a decent size.

Thanks for the correction. Happy trails. Rick