Water Heater Problems - Journey 32TD 2003 Atwood GCH10A-3E

adrade · 07-13-2021, 04:32 PM

Hello,

Please first excuse my newness to all of this. I’m a new owner of a 2003 Journey 32TD (which I have been loving so far), but one of the few problems I have is that hot water won’t heat on LP, but on electric, no problems. I took it to someone who told me I needed a new control board, so I have a new one in there now. The wiring looks like a nightmare and I’m just kind of hoping this is wired correctly. I’ve tried looking up schematics but I can’t seem for the life of me to find any direction with this specific model (GCH10A-3E, but a lot of info on the 4E model).

When I turn it on, the propane runs but doesn’t ignite so I also replaced the igniter but that didn’t fix anything. I also, while I was at it, replaced the thermostats since the original ones were basically crumbling.

I’m at a total loss here. I’m convinced this is miswired and am hoping maybe someone with a Journey with this model water heater can maybe take a photo of what their setup looks like so I can hopefully follow. If anyone out there could, I would super appreciate it. I’m posting a photo of the mess of a situation I have here.

Thanks everyone!
Adam

Morich · 07-13-2021, 05:42 PM

Do you ever get the feeling we just need to hold our mouth a bit different to get different results?
That sounds weird to ask but when I looked for a manual it seemed to pop right up-----if I'm reading it right????

Looking for manual for the GCH10A-3E, correct? This seems to be one with good info:
http://techsupport.pdxrvwholesale.co...ter-Manual.pdf

I might suggest starting at page 14 as that is where they "decode" the model number as a place to verify what you have and then 16/17 for troubleshooting guides?
Perhaps even get into the wiring schematics page 22?

I know how you feel when it has to be out there but it's hiding from me. Hope this gets you started in the right direction!
Or do I not read well? That happens , too!

imnprsd · 07-13-2021, 06:29 PM

If you are saying people don't do enough research before they post, that maybe correct, but it's also true a lot of people have a hard time getting motivated to read a manual or look at a circuit diagram, because they are just not wired that way. (No pun intended.)

In this case I think the OP is looking for some tips that may not stand out in the manual anyone can do with just a little effort that may make a difference, and will not risk making the problem worse? ...And the answer is yes might be these:

* Ask yourself: Does your WH work on electric but not gas; or is it the other way around? ...Because knowing this helps you know which thermostat maybe causing the problem. Also if you water temperature is less than normal or hotter than normal.

* Basically you want to rule in or out the accessory devices/thermostats before you condemn your circuit board.

* Try bypassing one thermostat at a time using a regular car fuse; and if you pilot light lights-up then you just found your problem. ...And sometimes all you need to do is clean and sand the oxidation off the tank where it mates with the thermostat.

* I also don't see a thermal protection diode in the OP's picture, but this is just another safety precaution.

* And you need to make sure the physical spec's of the igniter are set right.

Note: If your HWH has an electric element, that Manual High Temp Limit/Reset Switch is normally on the back of the water heater; and on my RV there is a back-metal-plate you have to remove to get to it.

When you are camping it is miserable not to have hot water. So it makes sense to know some basics on how your water heater works. And this is where YouTube.com shines.

Good luck with your HWH fix, and if you can let us know what symptoms you have, then maybe we can give you some additional tips to work with.

Morich · 07-13-2021, 07:00 PM

Since the OP mentioned doing the guessing game and didn't get what was needed, I jumped to this part where they mention looking for schematics and real info:
Quote:
" I’ve tried looking up schematics but I can’t seem for the life of me to find any direction with this specific model (GCH10A-3E, but a lot of info on the 4E model)."

But looking at the heater, there appears to have been a bit of neglect over time, so a point that is often missed but really common is whether there is a screen over the vents to keep bugs like wasps and mud daubers out of the airflow.

If there is not something to keep them out, they really like to build nests in the burner section where they block airflow. That often leads to the heater working when on AC but not when it needs air to burn!
A quick check for something stopping air coming out of the exhaust can be a quick cure.

adrade · 07-13-2021, 07:54 PM

So I have seen that manual and maybe I’m a bit daft, confused, or more likely both. I don’t see a diagram for the GCH-3E (I do for the GCH-4E, but my circuit board has one set of pins, not two - on the 4H version, they have a different control board wiring configuration), but I do see the GH-3E models (it says both the top and middle wiring configurations are for this model, oddly) even though the GCH isn’t listed, so I’ll try to study that one assuming it’s correct and see if I can figure out on confirming the wiring.

adrade · 07-13-2021, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imnprsd

If you are saying people don't do enough research before they post, that maybe correct, but it's also true a lot of people have a hard time getting motivated to read a manual or look at a circuit diagram, because they are just not wired that way. (No pun intended.)

In this case I think the OP is looking for some tips that may not stand out in the manual anyone can do with just a little effort that may make a difference, and will not risk making the problem worse? ...And the answer is yes might be these:

* Ask yourself: Does your WH work on electric but not gas; or is it the other way around? ...Because knowing this helps you know which thermostat maybe causing the problem. Also if you water temperature is less than normal or hotter than normal.

* Basically you want to rule in or out the accessory devices/thermostats before you condemn your circuit board.

* Try bypassing one thermostat at a time using a regular car fuse; and if you pilot light lights-up then you just found your problem. ...And sometimes all you need to do is clean and sand the oxidation off the tank where it mates with the thermostat.

* I also don't see a thermal protection diode in the OP's picture, but this is just another safety precaution.

* And you need to make sure the physical spec's of the igniter are set right.

Note: If your HWH has an electric element, that Manual High Temp Limit/Reset Switch is normally on the back of the water heater; and on my RV there is a back-metal-plate you have to remove to get to it.

When you are camping it is miserable not to have hot water. So it makes sense to know some basics on how your water heater works. And this is where YouTube.com shines.

Good luck with your HWH fix, and if you can let us know what symptoms you have, then maybe we can give you some additional tips to work with.

So, I really, really appreciate your patience and help for a novice like me. I did replace the ECO and thermostat today as well as the sparker although I, again, am not sure everything is wired up correctly. The control board is also new as someone more experienced than myself told me that needed to be replaced right away and left me with a mess of wires supposedly just about ready to plug into the new board, which I did. I’m going to take a closer look at the schematic in the morning to see if I can extract anything. Fortunately, I do have hot water running well on electric - just not on gas. When the gas WH turns on, it runs propane but does not ignite it, which made me think perhaps the sparker was the issue but a new one today seemed to make no difference, assuming it’s connected correctly. I was hoping for a high res photo of one of these installed in an old Journey to maybe guide my troubleshooting. I’m also going to dig in and look for any obstructions as well tomorrow.

I appreciate your help and will try to assemble more detail tomorrow. Thank you.

Morich · 07-14-2021, 07:47 AM

What I'm seeing on the manual is that page 14 explains which heater you have by using the code in the model number.

Since you have stated you have a GCH, that is a propane gas, combination electric and gas with (E) for electronic ignition. The size and type are not that important for sorting the problem.

That info leads you to page 17 and you have told us you have gas flow but not lighting.
So dropping down to the section for troubleshooting gas flow without spark, will lead you through a process to locate the problem.

If you find the guide tells you to check the wiring, THEN is the time to look at the wiring schematic. There is a lot of detail on the pages in between but if you need the wiring for a combination gas/ electric heater, that is on page 25. Tank size, issue number and the small details are not involved in the troubleshooting so whether you have an issue 3 or issue 4 is not supposed to make any difference in their thinking and troubleshooting, so ignore that details item.

But if the guide tells you there is no wiring problem, simply dress it up to prevent it getting too hot or dropping off and leave it without sorting wire by wire. If it works, why worry the wiring and the guide does actually know what the heater should do while most of the rest of us will only be guessing from limited prior experience and may be totally wrong on our guesses.

Also guessing is one way to spend a lot of money on useless changes!

**creativepart** · 07-14-2021, 11:19 AM

Excuse me for butting in... but. Here's what I see.

There is no thermal cut off. It's been permanently removed. Normally, the wiring wouldn't come directly from the circuit board to the T-Stat - the Thermal Cut Off would be in between the board and the T-Stat. The Thermal Cut Off is a safety measure to keep the propane portion from flaming up inside the heater. You can run the heater without one, but it's not safe to run it on propane without one.

My WH kept blowing the thermal cutoff and I and some repair techs had trouble locating the issue. It ran fine on AC power and we mostly camped with shore power. So, when my thermal cutoff would blow rather than just replace it I'd bypass it so I could run on electric. When bypassed the heater will work on both LP and AC but obviously not if there is some other problem preventing the LP from working.

It seems likely that this WH had problems running on Propane and a previous repair simply bypassed the thermal cutoff so it could run on AC. The previous owner knew it wouldn't work on Propane so why bother trying to correct that issue.

By the way, when the thermal cutoff is installed and connected properly the WH will not run on either AC or LP when the cutoff is blown. It blows at 200 degrees and is placed down near the burner as a safety device.

That brings up the circuit board. Atwood had about 3 to 4 years of defective water heater boards in the mid-2000s. That looks like an older standard Atwood board, but the wiring is all jacked up.

So, I doubt this wiring will match up with the wiring diagram of the stock Atwood water heater circuit board. Nor will it match up exactly right with your new circuit board.

At this point, about the only thing I'd try first is getting the heater wiring back to stock. Stock circuit board, stock wiring and thermal cut-off. You can buy a new wiring harness for it to be rewired for about $20. But I have no idea how you do that without pulling the WH out of the RV.

That said, that doesn't mean that this water heater can't be made to work as is. But the Atwood manual won't be much help in it's current state. When you get the new circuit board I think you'll be just as confused about how to connect it with the existing wiring.

The main thing to be learned from looking at your Water Heater is that the previous owner had a LOT of trouble with it and he or some hired tech really messed around with it.

Atwood repair places are pretty common and that's certainly an option - or even a complete replacement... about $1,000

Here is a photo of the missing Thermal Cutoff connection and another photo of the inside and wiring of a stock Atwood circuit board for you to compare with the look of your wiring.

**creativepart** · 07-14-2021, 11:37 AM

Also, I believe the model you have has been discontinued and replaced with model GC10-4E.

Morich · 07-14-2021, 11:39 AM

Certainly agree! Once things are changed beyond recognition, it takes a really good understanding of the what and how to get things to actually work.
How to get back to that OEM state is a tough one.

**creativepart** · 07-14-2021, 12:01 PM

I should state that the lack of a thermal cutoff - while a safety issue - is not the reason the WH will not run on Propane. It's my opinion that this water heater has had problems running on propane for a long time - and blew a lot of thermal cutoffs - so the previous owner simply had it bypassed.

Looking at the condition of the WH, the rust on the gas tube and such, that you can change parts and rewire it and change just about everything and still have unsolved issues.

When my WH gave me fits I too threw parts at it and adjusted it and stressed over it. I considered replacing it, but instead I tried a simple fix of moving the thermal cutoff to a location away from the exhaust flew and it stopped blowing cutoffs on Propane. The difference is mine always worked on AC and Propane the only problem was that it kept blowing thermal cutoffs.

At some point I think it's OK to yank the old thing out and start over with a new WH. But obviously, that depends on your ability or willingness to spend that kind of money to solve the issue.

There are three Atwood Authorized Service Centers in Toronto, CA: