Ethanol laced fuel

[agiledog]

I would like to know if anyone has tried fuel without ethanol and computed the difference in mileage. We know that the gas that is diluted with ethanol is not as efficient as plain gasoline. Where we are the straight gasoline is about 15 cents more per gallon.

[ron55]

before ethanol I had finally got my M/H up to 7 mpg with cold air induction and K&N filter. Now all I can find is ethanol and I now get 5 to 5.5 mpg.
I run the speed limit I don't poke along.

[Doug Sage]

I have found in both my car and my gas motorhome that my mileage drops 17% when I use 10% ethanol. This means that I am actually using MORE gasoline per mile with ethanol.

[nsdienes]

Have a flex fuel Ford Explorer w/w mpg gauge since 2005. Using e85 gets about 35% less mileage. Don't notice drop with 10%. If assume linear with e85 10% should result in 4% drop. Probably not noticeable. In many areas 10% is used in winter, suspect winter driving may reduce mpg a little.

N Dienes

[WOODYDEL]

it used to be here in NY ethanol was added to the fuel down state but upstate not. Downstate I would consistently get 19 MPG in my Mazda B4000. When I would travel to the Adirondacks, where fuel was ethanol free, I would get 23 MPG. Without fail, very consistently.

Now, of course, that malignancy is in all of our gasoline here in NY. No escape.

[stik]

I copied this from AAA's fuelgaugereport.com. To me, it indicates that a roughly 25% reduction in gas mileage can be expected from using E-85.

". . . according to the Energy Information Administration E-85 delivers approximately 25 percent fewer BTUs by volume than conventional gasoline."

[Me n Slowpoke]

It would sure be nice if at least one station in my area sold ethanol free fuel, currently I would run out of fuel trying to find one. However, I was in an auto parts store recently and while waiting my turn I aisle "shopped". I noticed they were selling injector cleaners for "ethanol" fuel users. So the price of the ethanol free fuel or the ethanol fuel with the cleaners would come out to be about the same price. If it works?

[WOODYDEL]

Originally Posted by stik

I copied this from AAA's fuelgaugereport.com. To me, it indicates that a roughly 25% reduction in gas mileage can be expected from using E-85.

". . . according to the Energy Information Administration E-85 delivers approximately 25 percent fewer BTUs by volume than conventional gasoline."

My example up above is only 10% ethanol.!


Go here for the truth because using E-85 is worse than a 25% reduction:

Search for Cars that don't need gas

[mythplaced]

at high altitudes (>5000ft) you need the extra oxygen that the ethanol provides mileage is irrelevant when your engine produces NO POWER!

[MrTransistor]

Hi All,

I feel your pain, I have a 1997 Buick Regal, a 1989 GMC Van, and 3 Motorcycles that used to drop in fuel mileage every winter here in Albuquerque. The recorded percentage drops (via spreadsheets for each vehicle) are about equal to what Doug Sage is experiencing.

It is true that the energy content of ethanol is about 25% lower (actually 35.4%) than that of gasoline per gallon, but it is my belief that since ethanol naturally has a higher octane, and since the EPA has mandated it’s use year round for every state, the producers are mixing it with less highly refined gasoline to come up with the same octane as before with regular gasoline which equates to increased profits. Well, maybe not exactly. The unseen costs of adding ethanol to the fuel probably makes it a wash. And just wait till the subsidies on ethanol run out! I hate having to buy premium just to get back to where we were but it’s the only thing my vehicles will run correctly on.

I also believe that Doug is correct that we now use more gasoline than before. This makes the argument moot that the oxygen in the ethanol will reduce the emissions. The single oxygen atom in ethanol may reduce emissions in really old cars that are tuned rich (the original reason for ethanol years ago), but in modern computer controlled, O2 sensor equipped, injected engines, I find it very hard to believe.

As to the claim that the theoretical decrease in economy, for 10% ethanol, should be around 4%. It is actually a theoretical decrease of 3.44%, but the reason the economy drops so much is that the oxygen in the fuel fakes out the O2 sensors and the computer tries to compensate by enriching the mixture at all speeds. This alone negates the reduced emission claims. The only way this can be properly compensated for is like they do on new flex fuel cars, ‘sense’ the percentage of ethanol in the fuel, and correct for it.

Even then, the mileage on E85 is reduced from the theoretical of 34.4% to the 35% or greater drop reported by N Dienes for the reason listed above in paragraph 2. Given the octane difference, you could probably mix corn flakes with the ethanol and still get 100 octane!

All info that follows is dependent on where you look and what numbers you use, but is relatively realistic.

______________Net BTU/gal (U.S.)______% decrease_____Octane
Reg. Gasoline______115,400_____________________________ 87
Ethanol____________75,700______________35.4%______ ___122

________________HHV BTU/lb__________% decrease
Gasoline___________20,400
Ethanol___________12,000_______________41.2%

I’m sure glad we aren’t paying by the pound at the pump! Ops, let the cat out of the bag. I hope the EPA doesn’t read this web site! Uhhh… lets see, now they want to raise the ethanol to 15% or 20%. Good thing I don’t believe in conspiracies! Seems like they want us all to buy ‘new’ flex fuel cars made overseas? Headline: New E85 RV’s get 5 MPG!

Interesting.
Ethanol

[94-Newmar]

I remember when E85 was being promoted as the next big thing. Nothing wrong with M/ethanol as a fuel - many racing classes including Indy/F1 use M/ethanol as a fuel. The benefits are far greater than running regular gasoline. The only problem is that it takes upwards of 1.5x more m/ethanol than gasoline to run the same and the pricing at the pump doesnt reflect that difference - so running m/ethanol is in most cases more expensive than running gasoline.

If the average cost per gallon of gasoline is $2.50/gal then pure m/ethanol pricing needs to be about $1.25-$1.50/gal to equal the same cost/value/MPG as gasoline. Meanwhile they'll continue to blend ethanol with our gasoline to reduce their costs, ruin our fuel mileage and charge us the same price.