Great read about RV Industry Quality

[creativepart]

This article rings totally true to me:
https://www.curbed.com/2019/9/18/208...s-poor-quality

[macnut]

Good article that covers the impact of the recession on quality, the boom over the last few years, consumers demanding cheaper RVs, and the lack of trained technicians. All very on point.

Since I purchased my RV 2 1/2 years ago, AFTER initial quality issues were addressed, I have also had the controller and door sensor on my steps go out, an AC unit go out, the 4x4 matrix on my entertainment center go out, my hood latch come off, and now a leak in the fresh water tank connection. All but the step issues happened within the last 4 months!

I have to say, this has been frustrating, but also that both the dealer and Winnebago have stood behind their product and have been good to work with. LaMesa, the dealer, is also expanding their service facility in DAVIS, CA.

None of these issues have kept us from enjoying our RV, but is an added distraction. I love RVing too much to let these things ruin our trips, but I would like to see a concerted effort by the manufacturers to improve quality. I totally understand that car manufacturers produce hundreds of thousands of an Car model each year, while RV manufacturers produce only hundreds or thousands of a particular model, but we need better quality.

[AZAspect]

Very well written! I think the push to train RV techs is a move in the right direction. I would also like to see their customer service upgraded, as well. We have found a few good customer service reps but the service departments really lack compassion and the skills to properly communicate to a client. Obviously there are exceptions, but we couldn't even get the service manager to return a call less than 30 minutes after leaving the dealership with our just purchased MH...and we had just met him! He never did call even though we left 6 messages. When the dealership sent out a survey, we mentioned the issue and we got a phone call within 6 hours from someone in corporate. They assured us that we would hear from them. Almost a year later, still no call. We figured out the issue and fixed it ourselves thanks mostly to these forums. Service departments are hit and miss. So although it will be a step in the right direction to get RV techs better trained, what good will that be if we can't even get a service manager to return a call or know how to deal with a customer in a professional manner?

Great article and thanks for sharing it!

Al

[creativepart]

Macnut, I hadn’t known about your on going issues. We had been trouble free ever since getting the initial problems fixed - for a whole year - until this trip we’re on now. We had our bedroom A/C go out a week ago on the 4-day of our trip.

It was 45-days out of its two-year warranty. I called Coleman they said “tough.”

I had an independent RV tech fix it but we had to wait for a part over last weekend and pay more then we should have to get it replaced so we could continue on our trip. We were in Missouri and still have mid-90’s for daily temps.

The tech said this model Coleman Mach 8 goes out all the time. They’re not fixable and break due to all the hard banging they get from the RV. Ours broke after 6-hours of really bad roads in Oklahoma. Though I doubt it was just that. It sprung a refrigerant leak and sprayed oil all over the insides.

The new one looks better built, hopefully it will last. But now we’re waiting on the front A/C to blow someday, too.

It’s not just RV manufacturers building bad product, it’s the 3rd part suppliers that build the slides, the steps, the A/C, the fridge and even Ford that builds a chassis that isn’t all that suited for this.

I guess we can blame the manufacturers for choosing sub-par parts and not doing anything to demand better quality. And for dealers not being more responsible to the brand and the customer.

[rarebear.nm]

We as the buyers have failed in our part as well in being willing to buy and accept low quality products. Quality of American cars had dropped badly until foreign cars started to beat them in their own home market. That's not likely to happen in the RV market, but I think we could use a shake up. Perhaps someone will develop an RV line that lends to robotic assembly as cars are assembled today.

The first time buyer, I hear that's about half of new sales, frequently having no idea what they are getting into. How to set proper expectations and demands for buyers is missing

[macnut]

Originally Posted by creativepart

Macnut, I hadn’t known about your on going issues..

CreativePart, after initial punch list we were doing great. All of these issues sprang up in the last 4 months! I also forgot to mention that our hot water heater went out the last trip. Should be an easy fix though. Hopefully, we’ll get past these issues and have another couple years of trouble-free RVing.

I also want to say again, that none of these issues kept us from enjoying our Camping trips.

Take care!
Al

[JoeC]

Sorry to hear about your problems, but I think that your expectations are a little high. You used "trouble-free" and "RVing" in the same sentence.

[JDove22]

We had an ACE built by Thor. It spent a total of 20 of the 24 months we owned it in the shop. Granted, Camping World couldn’t find their butt with both hands and a map, but that amount of time is ridiculous. Many of the issues were a part of the initial punch list.
We bought an ‘18 Forza in March of last year. Between the dealership and Winnebago, we’ve got a lot of things left hanging. I have parts literally falling off of the front cap. They were not correctly attached. SMH! The cargo doors swing open out of the blue. One I had to duct tape shut because nothing else would keep it closed if we moved a foot. Interior wood trim falling off going down the road, and the list goes on. We choose Winnebago after a lot of research should they were top 3 in quality, customer service and owner satisfaction. Not sure how they got that after our dealings with them.

[jimbobway47]

We have had a 1996, a 2004, a 2016 and now a 2018 motorhome. In each case we have had problems but never had to cut short a trip. I think the reason my wife wanted a newer RV was the failure of the rear Air Conditioner less than six months after a full replacement. It was 'record hot temperatures' in St. Louis that week. Then on our second trip on the newer RV the front air conditioner stopped cooling. I took it to our dealer today and he told me 5-7 days if the unit has to be replaced. At least this time the unit in the bedroom worked so sleeping was not an issue. I realize that some road conditions are so bad that heavy shaking of the whole RV occurs. Surely the manufacturers of components for RV's are capable of allowing for this. The last two RV's have had 'residential' refrigerators and I can remember when part of installing a refrigerator was un-clamping the compressor frame that was secured for shipment. Current units can obviously withstand more mechanical stress. I had a lid on a vent fan stop working and the manufacturer sent me the parts and repair instructions without charge. I had a door latchbolt on the bathroom door break and with the excellent web support from Winnebago was able to identify and order the part direct from them. It arrived two days after my order. I think the manufacturers are listening to our complaints and taking action. I had to do a lot of web research to find information on my three older RV's. The 2018 came with about 10 inches of documentation in a nice canvas carrier and included copies of manuals for all the accessories. All electrical, plumbing, and mechanical diagrams are on the website, some rendered in 3D for easy access. There are clear instructions for winterizing, chassis maintenance, and generator maintenance. Things have broken but count me as a satisfied customer.

[mileshuff]

Have had my 2014 Winnebago 5th wheel for 5 years now. After a few issues when new it has had ZERO issues since. Best RV I've owned.

[Flash]

What I have told friends is that quality of RVs will improve as soon as Toyota or Honda decide to enter the market, which I doubt will EVER happen. That is a sad comment on the state of the industry but I am afraid it is true. Just like the auto industry in the 60s, it was all junk but there were no alternatives.

I've mentioned on here before that I have a friend who spent a ton on a brand new Newmar two years ago and it has been one thing after another. Horrible quality.

[thataway4]

We bought a new 38 foot Winnebago Adventurer Diesel pusher in 1992. (We think it probably was one of the very first rear diesels Winnebago made). It had the most problems of any RV we have owned in the 57 years of RViing. (Lost all brakes and no emergency brake--just as pawl in the transmission, water tank fell out of the bottom on I 20 at 9 PM between Fort Worth and Dallas, Fuel tank would have also fallen out, but fixed when water tank repaired)--throttle cable "froze" (literally in sub 30* weather) and I had to kill the engine to stop. It was routed so it would chafe on a frame member. Plus a dozen other issues. Prior to the current 2013 Via we had a Holiday Rambler 40' 2007 diesel pusher. We bought it a year old, and it had some problems which were from the date of build. We put 80,000 miles on it relatively trouble free. I can go back and look at problems with most RV's we have owned. I don't think that they are much worse now. What has changed is that the systems and engines have become more complex. Replace rather than repair. All and all we are satisfied with our current Winnie.

[BellOnWheels]

Interesting article. One thing I learned early on was that I would need to be responsible for as many repairs as possible. I recently took my coach in for a punch list of relatively, but still important, repairs. Almost none were repaired correctly. Slowly, over time, I have completed the repairs myself. Now don't get me wrong. The big stuff I'm still very reliant upon and appreciative of our local RV techs. But my point here is that probably an integral part of RV'ing is the desire and ability to maintain and to some extent repair one's own RV (as many in this forum do).

[JoeC]

JDove22: Just think how bad the products are or how many problem units there are from the lower rated manufacturers. Even the best built and top rated manufacturers have some issues. As you said, the industry as a whole builds "crap!".

[macnut]

As a follow up, our dealer fixed all the problems, including the water leak. Hopefully we’ll now have another couple years of trouble-free RVing. After having a few problems in the last 4 months, I have to say I’m still impressed with the schematics and info on the Winnebago site, their level of customer service even out of warranty, and also the beefed up service department of La Mesa RV in DAVIS, Ca. I’m impressed with the quality of their techs and quick turnaround on repairs and maintenance. Can’t wait to get on the road again!

[Dennis L]

Where do you find these schematics at Winnebago? All I find are assembly drawings. Also no wiring diagrams.
Makes it very difficult to troubleshoot problems

[cthiggy]

In response to FLASH above: Me too. Started driving foreign autos in the late 60s due to questionable quality of American vehicles. When asked: Why do you drive foreign in lieu of U.S. built cars, I always replied: When U. S. automakers start building cars of equal quality, I'll buy one. Today, we own/drive a Honda Fit and a Toyota Prius.

In response to thataway4; We bought a new 2017 Holiday Rambler and had an amazing number of issues..... the worse of which was that all warranty claims required approval from HR Corporate which (honestly) took weeks. Had it five months and sold it as soon as we could. The HR was our fifth RV...and easily the WORSE!! Never again.

[mileshuff]

Originally Posted by cthiggy

When asked: Why do you drive foreign in lieu of U.S. built cars, I always replied: When U. S. automakers start building cars of equal quality, I'll buy one. Today, we own/drive a Honda Fit and a Toyota Prius.

Thru the 1980's and into the 90's I'd agree USA car quality plummeted and Asian quality rose. In late 90's and into 2000's that reversed considerably. Toyota who was #1 in quality dropped way down the list with numerous problems. Nissan who as close to the top had big problems with timing chain failures which is questionable if they've resolved. Toyota still lacks from where they once were but the Prius has held the top stop the past few years.

That said, the worst brands of USA cars are still more reliable with fewer issues than the majority of RV brands! I'm lucky. My Winnebago has been nearly flawless in 5 years since new.

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by Dennis L

Where do you find these schematics at Winnebago? All I find are assembly drawings. Also no wiring diagrams.
Makes it very difficult to troubleshoot problems

Right on the Winnebago website.
1. www.winnebagoind.com
2. Click on Owners Resources
3. Click on Service
4. Scroll down - take your pick of what you need in Self-Help Tools

[Sun_Seeker]

What a great thread! Most interesting and informative...really enjoying the thread replies!