I think I have a problem coming up...

SCVJeff · 10-25-2008, 08:22 PM

After working on the coach for a few hours tonight I went to retract the rear slide, and nothing! I hit the swx several times before going up front where I could hear the pump and try the front slide (that was already in). It took 2 or 3 pushes of the front switch before the pump finally came on. I suspect I have a contactor/ relay going out in the system and am curious if anyone has already been through this so I have a head start? Also, can I pop the case of these relays and clean the contacts?

Thanks, Jeff

(edit): One thing I noticed is that when hitting the retract switch that the "Travel Mode" LED on the level panel comes on. Never noticed that before, but could have always been lit.

SCVJeff · 10-25-2008, 08:22 PM

After working on the coach for a few hours tonight I went to retract the rear slide, and nothing! I hit the swx several times before going up front where I could hear the pump and try the front slide (that was already in). It took 2 or 3 pushes of the front switch before the pump finally came on. I suspect I have a contactor/ relay going out in the system and am curious if anyone has already been through this so I have a head start? Also, can I pop the case of these relays and clean the contacts?

Thanks, Jeff

(edit): One thing I noticed is that when hitting the retract switch that the "Travel Mode" LED on the level panel comes on. Never noticed that before, but could have always been lit.

MrTransistor · 10-26-2008, 12:19 AM

Hi Jeff,

Make sure the ground (mounting bolts with star washers) is solid. Corrosion on these bolts will cause the pump, solenoids, or contactors to seem bad. Tighten all the mounting bolts that furnish the chassis ground to the HWH assembly. Good Luck.

DAN L · 10-26-2008, 01:18 AM

Do your jacks work? the the 2 solenoids that operate the motor are grounded by the clamp that attaches the 2 solenoids to the motor. try grounding with a jumper wire.
those solenoids can be purchased at an auto parts store. they are similar to an older ford starter solenoid.
i read somewhere on this forum that the motor can be purchased at napa after i bought mine from hwh for $195.

SCVJeff · 10-26-2008, 10:13 AM

I didn't think to try the jacks as I was already late, but it sounds like there is a grounding issue with these. I didn't realize that they are garden variety contactors (good and bad), but will head back on over this afternoon and look at them.

Thanks!!!

SCVJeff · 10-26-2008, 08:45 PM

UPDATE:
It appears that the contactors are being told not to switch by the control board. It's so intermittent its hard to work the problem backwards but I got far enough to see that the coil isn't coming on. I'll call HWH tomorrow and see if they can point be to something on the board.

But in the middle of all this I learned that 2 of my entrance steps are hinged!

DAN L · 10-27-2008, 01:02 AM

U gotta have a good starting battery to operate the hwh pump. gotta be charged over 12.2 volts (50%).
if the solenoids are clicking, try tapping on the end of the motor with a hammer to reseat the brushes while your dw holds a slide switch energized.
that worked for me for a little while. i eventually had to replace the motor.

cbeierl · 10-27-2008, 04:02 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SCVJeff:
...
(edit): One thing I noticed is that when hitting the retract switch that the "Travel Mode" LED on the level panel comes on. Never noticed that before, but could have always been lit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is normal--mine does the same thing.

SCVJeff · 10-27-2008, 12:01 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DAN L:
U gotta have a good starting battery to operate the hwh pump. gotta be charged over 12.2 volts (50%).
if the solenoids are clicking, try tapping on the end of the motor with a hammer to reseat the brushes while your dw holds a slide switch energized.
that worked for me for a little while. i eventually had to replace the motor. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Batteries are in excellent shape as they sit on solar. After playing with it a little last night I'm convinced that the contactor is not being told to come on. As I started moving to the control panel the darn thing started operating normally again. I now have all the various manuals and diagnostic pages printed, so hopefully I can get it to act up long enough to watch the LEDS on the control board, AND whack the board to see what that does. Best guess right now is a driver relay, or maybe a poorly seated plug.

Question to the floor:
a) There is hydraulic oil on top of the tank (ie- it's covered. Normal?
b) How loose should the tank cap be? Right now if's "floppy" Is that the nature of this vented cap?

SteveG · 10-27-2008, 05:34 PM

On our 2004 Journey the cap is tight and no oil escapes. Not to handy a place to work but a drop light and a little patience should let you figure out what is wrong. I might be wrong about this but I think my cap screwed on? My HWH manual does not address the cap under the maintenace oil level section so probably a call to HWH should get you the answer.

Chief · 10-28-2008, 05:15 AM

Cap is snug. No fluid on or around the reservoir.

SargeW · 10-30-2008, 07:29 PM

My cap is tight Jeff. as a matter of fact, the cap is also a dip stick for the fluid level. Are you raising the entry step to get to the top of the tank? I had problems with leaks when mine was new and didn't know that the steps lifted. One bolt on the front of the step and viola!

Sarge

SCVJeff · 10-30-2008, 09:14 PM

I didn't either !

Crawling around under there last weekend it became obvious that there was zero access to any of that area. Crawled out, stand & stare at steps, feel under lip for bolt.... DUH..

I do need to figure out what's up with the cap. It's really loose, but tight.

dirko · 10-31-2008, 09:16 AM

Hi Ho Jeff: As a ham you know that most problems with electriconic stuff has to do with connectors or switches. I have had power steering fluid on top of the reservoir, but only when I over-fill the tank.

Too bad the thing started working again, but check for some connection that isn't tight.

Good luck, Dirk

NoMoreAZ · 10-31-2008, 05:46 PM

Jeff,

As others have mentioned, cap should be tight and no fluid on top of box unless reservoir is over filled. Cap assembly is also contains a wrench and a dipstick. I put some fluid in my tank yesterday to make up for my connector or hose leaks, of which I have ** three **. I am now 27 miles from HWH and have an appointment Monday AM. I gave up trying to fix these.

Meanwhile DW wants to go to Amana on Sunday.

SCVJeff · 10-31-2008, 06:47 PM

I did a recon on this today and it turns out that this is a plastic hex cap about 2" tall and is also vented. While the cap was on tight it does feel loose because of the vent mechanism. It doesn't appear broken so I assume everyone else's cap feels like this?

Now back to the original control board problems..

cbeierl · 11-01-2008, 10:14 AM

Yes, that sounds normal for the cap.

SCVJeff · 11-02-2008, 09:34 PM

Update on my pump control issue:

Someone at HWH was really thinking about field diagnosis when they designed the hydraulic control board. EVERYTHING; control inputs, and output control have LED's on them (the way I probably would have built it).

Armed with an excellent .pdf on the HWH website it's really easy to see whats going on. Playing with it today I had it fail only once, but it was enough to confirm the failure. When the 'retract slide' switch was pushed, LED's 13 & 14 came on indicating that there was a command to turn on the Master Relay (I assume #13 is across the driver relay). LED 14 says that there is +12 present on the output contact of the Master Relay.

Next to that, LED 15 confirms that the Pump Relay is now on, but as I watched, LED 16 that indicates +12 on the output contact of the Pump Relay was barely flickering. I whacked the control box a few times with no change (didn't have the front off to tap the actual relay). A few seconds later LED 16 lit up and the pump came on. And of course it continued to work..

I think it'll come down to either a control relay or one of the multi-pin Molex looking connectors on the rear (oh goodie..).

Since this is such a common system to many different coaches I think I'll post it on another forum for wider attention, but I suspect a call to HWH is in the near future.

SCVJeff · 11-20-2008, 06:49 PM

Well here's the end to this story...

As a review, I had problems with the hydraulic pump (not) coming on, stranding the slides & jacks intermittently. Thanks to excellent documentation, the nice folks at HWH, and those great LED's on the board, I narrowed it down to one driver relay on the control board. Below are pictures of the pump solenoid driver relay location on the control board, as well as a forensic inspection of the relay itself to make sure this was really the problem. One look at the contacts pretty much answers that question.

I know there have been several problems with pump operation on the forum, so after this I would again suggest looking at the HWH sheet (posted earlier), and the diagnostic LED's. They were right!

troth · 11-21-2008, 04:48 AM

Great pics Jeff!
I presume the relay came off the board with a little persuasion (it wasn't soldered on, was it?).
Do you think those were silver contacts?

One good thing is that all the relays look the same, so it's good advice to buy one and keep a spare on hand. Could you get one from NAPA, or did you get it from HWH?

As to reason for failure, can you speculate about why it happened? Was the pump usually actuated when your coach engine was off, perhaps energizing the solenoid around 12vdc instead of 14 vdc from the alternator? (I've heard that lower voltage may be more damaging on some contact points). Your coach is pretty new, and I've not heard others complain about "losing a relay" on their HWH system. Perhaps it was just a defective manufacturer's part.