We need to go on a diet - weighed the coach again ...

John_Canfield · 05-03-2006, 02:27 PM

Having acquired more stuff in the last few months (like the Howard Precision Center Steer and the SlideMaster), I was hot-to-trot to get the coach weighed again. We have weighed three previous times, but it was time to do it again.

We were weighed with: 100 gallons of diesel (full tank), 1/2 tank of water, 1/3 gray, 1/3 black tanks, and two people.

The numbers:

Steer axle: 12,140 <<-- yup.. over limit by 140 pounds, but no big deal (the tires and IFS are okay for this weight with no problem)

Drive axle: 19,720 <<-- yea! - we are under the 20K limit by 280 pounds

Gross weight: 31,860 <<-- We are under our gross limit by 140 pounds

It was time to dig out the air hose and increase the tire pressures. My Michelin charts indicated we needed 115 pounds in the front and 100 pounds in the rear. We are maxed out on the load carrying capacity of the Load Range "G" tires in the front - I would like to change them for Load Range "H" tires like Rudy Morris has done so I can run a lower tire pressure and have a softer ride.

After getting on the road today, I immediately noticed a difference due to carrying 115 pounds in the front (compared to the 105 we did have.) Road bumps were much more pronounced but the coach seemed more 'predictable' in high-speed curves without feeling that the body was leaning too much. I was always concerned because the coach seemed to lean too much in high-speed cornering. I have always tried to run the proper tire pressure in synchronization with the coach's weight, so I don't know why the coach feels more 'stable' in cornering situations now.

I did throw away about five pounds of stuff today and shifted some weight to the back, so maybe things are improved

John_Canfield · 05-03-2006, 02:27 PM

Having acquired more stuff in the last few months (like the Howard Precision Center Steer and the SlideMaster), I was hot-to-trot to get the coach weighed again. We have weighed three previous times, but it was time to do it again.

We were weighed with: 100 gallons of diesel (full tank), 1/2 tank of water, 1/3 gray, 1/3 black tanks, and two people.

The numbers:

Steer axle: 12,140 <<-- yup.. over limit by 140 pounds, but no big deal (the tires and IFS are okay for this weight with no problem)

Drive axle: 19,720 <<-- yea! - we are under the 20K limit by 280 pounds

Gross weight: 31,860 <<-- We are under our gross limit by 140 pounds

It was time to dig out the air hose and increase the tire pressures. My Michelin charts indicated we needed 115 pounds in the front and 100 pounds in the rear. We are maxed out on the load carrying capacity of the Load Range "G" tires in the front - I would like to change them for Load Range "H" tires like Rudy Morris has done so I can run a lower tire pressure and have a softer ride.

After getting on the road today, I immediately noticed a difference due to carrying 115 pounds in the front (compared to the 105 we did have.) Road bumps were much more pronounced but the coach seemed more 'predictable' in high-speed curves without feeling that the body was leaning too much. I was always concerned because the coach seemed to lean too much in high-speed cornering. I have always tried to run the proper tire pressure in synchronization with the coach's weight, so I don't know why the coach feels more 'stable' in cornering situations now.

I did throw away about five pounds of stuff today and shifted some weight to the back, so maybe things are improved

AdrianLee · 05-03-2006, 02:37 PM

John - 5lbs????? Maybe it did help?????

It is weird - you are having exactly the opposite results from my dropping down to 105psi.

Strange

rebelsbeach · 05-03-2006, 02:47 PM

John,
Funny that you and I discussed the high center of gravity issue while in Forest City and you may have found a cure....On the way home,Jim even commented about the seemingly high center...

tderonne · 05-04-2006, 04:13 AM

Just going to have to stop adding toys!

Cruzer · 05-04-2006, 04:50 AM

You could fill the front tires with helium.

FrontRangeRVer · 05-04-2006, 06:26 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Steer axle: 12,140 <<-- yup.. over limit by 140 pounds, but no big deal (the tires and IFS are okay for this weight with no problem) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

John....I am just curious why this would be no big deal.

Sounds like a BIG diet is in order...

JanBCarter · 05-04-2006, 10:24 AM

I go along with FrontRanger, John. Axle ratings aren't just the axles, tires & suspension, but all the components...brakes, spindles, bearings, etc. The manufacturers "axle rating" takes this all into account as the chain is only as strong as its weakest link. From your conscientious posts, I would have figured you for a little more conservative, and not wanting to live with "loaded to the max". Certainly just upgrading to "H" rated tires only infringes on your margin of safety, and I'd go there with caution. Keep up the great posts. We love to hear from you.

rebelsbeach · 05-04-2006, 11:36 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong,but isn't the rise in GVWR for 2006 in my Vectra solely because I have "H" rated tires and the 2005 Vectra does not?

Cruzer · 05-04-2006, 11:38 AM

John, The Allegro Bus with Freightliner chassis has a 12,000 rating on the solid front axle but 14,440 on the IFS. I'm thinking that you probably have the same IFS as the Bus, seeing as how they are both Freightliners and recent years. Have you investigated as to why it's only 12K? I would think that the only difference would be the tires. If the hardware is indeed different, that's another story. I know the GVW of the Bus was raised the year that the XRVs were no longer used and the XZE tires were used. Other than that, the axles and air bags were the same.

rebelsbeach · 05-04-2006, 11:50 AM

Just my thinking as well Mark....must have posted at the same time.

John_Canfield · 05-04-2006, 01:26 PM

Rudy Morris, webmaster and an officer of the Freightliner Chassis Owner's Club (FCOC) owns an '04 Vectra and was maxed out on the front axle like me. A few weeks ago I started a thread on the FCOC forum about how Winnie uprated the IFS on the 2006 Horizon/Vectra from 12K to 14+K.

Rudy got interested in the uprate and started making phone calls - he called Winnebago, Freightliner and made several calls to ZF (the front suspension supplier). To summarize the investigation results:

-The uprate was accomplished by going to Load Range H tires

-The ZF-IFS suspension was tested to 16,000 pounds and the 2004/5/6 versions are essentially the same

-The steering box is different on the '06 Vectra/Horizon to accomodiate another 2,000 pounds load.

-Brakes, everything else is the same

What all of this means to Rudy (and me) is that we can safely 'play around' somewhat with the 12k limit by going to load range H tires. Even though I am technically over the placarded 12,000 pound limit, the tires are okay with the weight according to Michelin and there is no doubt in my mind that the suspension can safely handle a few extra pounds.

I do not think it would be prudent to add several hundred extra pounds on the front axle, but I'm fine going over one or two hundred pounds depending on the tire rating.

Rudy went to Load Range H tires on his coach so he can run them at a lower pressure - I think he said he went from 115 pounds on Load Range G to 90 with the Load Range H.

tderonne · 05-04-2006, 07:31 PM

1% of 12,000 is 120 pounds. I doubt any scales any of us would use are even that accurate...

vicsryd · 05-05-2006, 09:04 PM

To paraphrase RVSEF (RV Safety Education Foundation) as heard at a recent rally, exceeding gross weight and tire ratings even by one pound isn't just about safety it's about legality.

If for some reason you are stopped and weighed by the state partrol (out West CHP and WASP carry portable scales in some of their vehicles) and you are over the axle/chassis rating then they most likely will write you a ticket. My understanding is these tickets start at $250 ang go up, way up.

If you are in an accident and cause property damage or worse to others and the lawyers determine you were criminally negligent by being over a certified weight on an axle or tire then they will own you. This is regardless of whether or not there was a axle/tire related failure caused the accident.

Even if you technically increase the actual load carrying capacity (e.g. increasing the load range of the tires as discussed in this thread) only the chassis manufacturer can change the legal weight rating as specified on the plate in the driver's area.

This said, does anyone know if Freightliner offers a factory program to retrofit and legally increase load capacity based on later model year improvements?

CHIPPYSGT · 05-06-2006, 04:27 AM

I don't think you have to worry about the CHP messing with you. They have more than enough to do trying to keep the big rigs in line. Most of the portable scales are in the shop most of the time. Their life expectancy is not good at all.

If you happen to see one of the pickup trucks set up along the side of a road (not a freeway) stop and ask if they'll weigh you if their scales are working. They just might and then you would get a weight for the individual wheel positions.

Doug, SKP#91462
CHP (retired)

rebelsbeach · 05-06-2006, 04:45 AM

Jon Pritchard,you do make a valid argument and my concern with John C's "situation" would be in the steering box area...

Other than that,I think any attorney worth his salt could work in your behalf and prove that you "retrofitted" your coach to meet the new and improved Winnebago standards as far as upfitting to a higher weight rating with the tires and such,even though the weight placard wasn't changed.

Yes,you do ask a valid question about the possibility of having that changed as well.

rebelsbeach · 05-06-2006, 04:47 AM

Another source for obtaining weights for your coach would be to look in the yellow pages for a CAT scale,or even call some of the moving companies or oil delivery companies in your area and ask about the possibility of having your buggy weighed...

ichn2go · 05-06-2006, 05:07 AM

Moving companies or gravel companies are great places to have your coach weighed. In our area I found a moving company that could weight the four corners and charged me 10.00. The gravel company could not weight four corners, because of side rails. Weighed front and rear axels and they didn't charge at all.
Keep looking and you will find a place that can do the four corners...
John, like you I would not be concerned about the little extra weight that you are over. Some folks maybe would like more safety margin, but as a good sailor knows a little extra sail won't hurt you in a blow.Good Miles

John_Canfield · 05-06-2006, 05:35 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by vicsryd:
To paraphrase RVSEF (RV Safety Education Foundation) as heard at a recent rally, exceeding gross weight and tire ratings even by one pound isn't just about safety it's about legality. --snip--

This said, does anyone know if Freightliner offers a factory program to retrofit and legally increase load capacity based on later model year improvements? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I am not in the least concerned about the leagility of being over weight by a few pounds - like Tim pointed out I doubt if the scales are accutate to 0.5%.

Another factor is that as soon as I start to drive the coach and use fuel, I'm lightening the load by seven pounds for each mile I drive.

Never heard of Winnie or FTL changing the placard to change weight ratings. I HAVE heard of Newmar doing that many times though (and that's another story.)

cbeierl · 05-06-2006, 06:40 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Another factor is that as soon as I start to drive the coach and use fuel, I'm lightening the load by seven pounds for each mile I drive. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you're only getting 1MPG

I would guess it's more like a reduction of 1 pound/mile.