Winnebago profits fall 14%

[KCE]

Here

[KCE]

Here

[ichn2go]

Its interesting that sales rose..

[ron55]

From my experince of purchasing a new 2005 Voyage, I would say QUALITY CONTROL is the reason for any decline. I would not buy another new Winnebago product!
I would consider a used Winne, if I could determine all the production defects had been repaired.
A new Winnebago coupled with a Workhorse chassis, forget it!
Yep, I been to several dealers and forest city and I did not enjoy it.

[CaptChet]

I think they build a good product and don't have as many production gigs as some other manufacturers.
I noticed the writer of the news story points out that there is a set aside of $900,000. for executive bonus's. If the company were to distribute those funds out to those who bust their butts to build the good product, the gig rate might go down.
I am not a Stock Holder at this time, but if I were, I would be vocal regarding distributions of earned profits to those who earn the profits.

[DonavonP]

I like my Winnebago. I've experienced few problems caused by poor workmanship.

I don't believe the guy with the caulking gun on the roof has a vested interest in the success of the company but at least it's out of sight. It would be SOOOO simple to keep the caulking gun from drizzling between caulking points. Other than that, the unit is tops including the chassis.

[vicsryd]

The Winnebago CEO's optimistic outlook may just be that, optimistic. There are rumors of delays in 2008 diesel pusher production due to lack of Freightliner chassis (which in turn is due to lack of new emissions engines). If so then Winnebago would potentially be facing lower revenues in the next couple of quarters and possibly furloughs for production workers.

The silver lining is the lack of new diesel coaches will affect the whole industry. This could create a pent up demand which could boost sales later in the year.

[Zimectrin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by vicsryd:
The silver lining is the lack of new diesel coaches will affect the whole industry. This could create a pent up demand which could boost sales later in the year. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


??? Hummm,,, Driving up the good pusher used market??

[Richard 34A]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RON55:
From my experince of purchasing a new 2005 Voyage, I would say QUALITY CONTROL is the reason for any decline. I would not buy another new Winnebago product!
I would consider a used Winne, if I could determine all the production defects had been repaired.
A new Winnebago coupled with a Workhorse chassis, forget it!
Yep, I been to several dealers and forest city and I did not enjoy it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

RON55;

Based on my experience with our Sightseer, I'd have to agree with you. I've been told that mine is not the norm and that I've had 'bad luck', but I don't see it that way.

Just this week I posted here about a long-term water leak that turned out to be a cracked fitting behind the shower, finally breaking while on city water and making a huge mess during our vacation at Disneyland. Sure, it was only a $7.00 part but really put a damper on the vacation and lost half a day fixing it myself. Or I could have waited until I got back home and taken it to the Winnebago dealer that told me twice before that they'd fixed it. That would have meant no water for four days, not even using the 12v pump. Great...

This is my first Winnebago product after three Fleetwood products; I bought into the Winnebago quality sales pitch. A lot of people make fun of the quality of Fleetwood products but we NEVER had any of the problems that we've had with the Sightseer. Some have suggested it's because the Sightseer MH is entry level but if that's the case, Winnebago has sure convinced me that when I upgrade, I'd be silly not to go to another brand. And that cheesy $7.00 part? (Camping World retail; probably cost Winnebago $1.00.) What do you think they use on that $180k MH?

That Workhorse chassis that is surperior to Ford? Not so sure of that either... going down and back on Interstate 5, I can say we took the same beating suspension-wise as our old 1995 Flair on a Ford chassis. We even had numerous wood-plugs pop out at us from the T.V. area. An easy fix but just an example of how inadequate the suspension is... lot's of dash squeeking and popping, front T.V. banging around, side windows chirping away with wind noise driving at more than 40 mph, entry door that squeeks and rattles away on all but the smoothest roads, etc. No car manufacturer would survive based on the quality that we all seem to accept on RV's, and at a far higher cost.

Maybe if I finally have a run of 'good luck' I'll feel differently over time, I'm just not sure that is ever going to happen... unfortunately, it's turned into a game of 'let's go camping and guess what is going to break this time'.

[DriVer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by vicsryd:
The silver lining is the lack of new diesel coaches will affect the whole industry. This could create a pent up demand which could boost sales later in the year. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Just a side note:

Workhorse is building CAT C7 powered R-Series 2008 emission compliant powered RDP chassis at the moment and they appear to be moving forward with their plans to continue providing the RV Industry with its innovative brand of RDP chassis.

The new chassis is being built using 210,000 sq ft of leased space at the Roadmaster plant in Elkhart, IN.

[DriVer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RON55:
From my experience of purchasing a new 2005 Voyage, I would say QUALITY CONTROL is the reason for any decline. I would not buy another new Winnebago product! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>RON55, I would buy a new Winnebago product. It's regrettable at times to have to generate a repair hit list a couple of dozens of lines deep however that said few if any manufacturers provide us with perfect RV products.

It's not difficult to find high 6 digit value motorhomes appear to be constantly in need of one repair or another.

WGO will surely recover from this hiccup in their market price and it will most likely do so better than most other manufacturers because they control everything about their own destiny in-house. Winnebago Industries is a most amazing operation.

[Richard 34A]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DriVer:

RON55, I would buy a new Winnebago product. It's regrettable at times to have to generate a repair hit list a couple of dozens of lines deep however that said few if any manufacturers provide us with perfect RV products.

It's not difficult to find high 6 digit value motorhomes appear to be constantly in need of one repair or another. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And therein lies the problem: we might spend $90k to over $300k and accept that we will have problems. New cars costing as little as $16k might have all inclusive three or four year warranties; some vehicles have mechanical warranties up to 100,000 miles. RV's? One year bumper to bumper is typical... you might drive an average car 10k to 25k miles a year; a MH, no where near that.

So why such as short warranty period on RV's... because the manufacturer knows all too well about their build quality!

Can you imagine spending even $50k on a Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, Cadillac, etc. and getting the same build quality as a typical MH at two to three times the cost? Not meaning to pick on Hyundai owners, but their JD Powers Customer Satisfaction Rating would be far higher than that of a typical RV owner.

And the sad thing is when you buy a new RV, you usually don't pick it up for two to three days after buying it, just so they can make sure it's ready... and yet we all have a laundry list of things that need to be repaired after just the first trip out!

Maybe other states are different, but California has no Lemon Law regarding RV's... I now know why the RV industry fights all efforts to put that law into effect in California...

[bobpie]

Yep Richard, couldn't have said it better. In fact I did say it about 3 years ago. I just don't understand why any one buying a motor Home of any brand should have to put up with all the problems that they do have. I agree with you 100 percent.

[DriVer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Richard 34.5A:
So why such as short warranty period on RV's... because the manufacturer knows all too well about their build quality!... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>WCC's 3 year 36,000 mile bumper to bumper and their 5 year 100,000 mile power train warranty and the 5 year 200,000 mile warranty on the Allison tells me that they know full well about the quality of their chassis.

I believe WGO has increased their warranty to an 18 month bumper to bumper warranty and most often you can get things repaired under good will.

WGO field service teams that attend major rallies can and will repair as many as a half-dozen items for free even if outside of the warranty period.

You can also go to Forest City and if needed you can have almost that many or more items fixed under good will.

I have fixed a few items on my motorhome and I think that every motorhome owner should be able to repair small things on their own.

My brand new house only had a 1 year warranty. Out of warranty - my builder replaced all the metal wrap on my screen room out as a good will gesture because I had some metallurgical corrosion in the cladding that covered the wooden structure.

People are inherently good and I see no evil entities at Winnebago Industries avoiding or waiting for our motorhome's warranties to expire before they pop the cork on the champaign. Into my 5 year of ownership, my motorhome is great and the automotive gear has never ran so well. 59,000 miles and counting.

[ichn2go]

I have alluded to the statement earlier..What you folks are missing is the fact that sales are UP at Winnie. Sales are not down 14% due to the fact that folks are NOT buying the product.

Now as to quality, those of you who talk about the quality of various autos, don't remember the days when the quality of those same cars was horrendous. The Japanese cars had a better reputation(yet still had problems) and therfore that is why they gained a foothold in the American Car market. It took many years for Detroit to catch up on quality..Now after these many years you are seeing the results of these efforts in the car market.

Back to MOHO's, traditionally the entery level models do not have the refinements and attention to detail that the more expensive models have( its true in auto's too). I know, no matter what you pay you should receive good value. As Driver pointed out, your home only has a one year warranty. Put wheels under it and drive it down the highway at 60mph and see what problems you have...A moho has many more components than a auto , many different suppliers and many more folks building it than a car. Now ,,,after having said all that, there is also a shortage of technicians skilled in the repair of all components on a Moho and that compounds the problem of getting the defects repaired. Should this be? Not really, but this is not a perfect world and this situation exists in many areas of our lives today...My motto is, "I never mind having a problem, getting it fixed easily, is where the biggest problem lies." Work with Winnie and they will work with you. Honey, is very sweet to most people. Good Miles

[Richard 34A]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ichn2go:
Now as to quality, those of you who talk about the quality of various autos, don't remember the days when the quality of those same cars was horrendous. The Japanese cars had a better reputation(yet still had problems) and therfore that is why they gained a foothold in the American Car market. It took many years for Detroit to catch up on quality..Now after these many years you are seeing the results of these efforts in the car market.

Back to MOHO's, traditionally the entery level models do not have the refinements and attention to detail that the more expensive models have( its true in auto's too). I know, no matter what you pay you should receive good value. As Driver pointed out, your home only has a one year warranty. Put wheels under it and drive it down the highway at 60mph and see what problems you have...A moho has many more components than a auto , many different suppliers and many more folks building it than a car. Now ,,,after having said all that, there is also a shortage of technicians skilled in the repair of all components on a Moho and that compounds the problem of getting the defects repaired. Should this be? Not really, but this is not a perfect world and this situation exists in many areas of our lives today...My motto is, "I never mind having a problem, getting it fixed easily, is where the biggest problem lies." Work with Winnie and they will work with you. Honey, is very sweet to most people. Good Miles </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Regarding the poor build quality on vehicles, I do remember when Toyota and Nissan (Datsun) first came here and the terrible quality... THAT was 45 years ago though and the consumer wasn't spending $90k+. American cars during the 70's and 80's didn't have great build quality either but again, people didn't spend anywhere near what it costs today for an entry-level MH. Modern technology has greatly improved the quality of automobiles; has the RV industry improved by the same ratio? Sure, a MH has more components, but it's the build quality and attention to detail that counts... and the RV industry simply is not held to the same standard as a passenger vehicle. My local Fleetwood and Winnebago service department is packed to the gills with units that are in for repair (and service, of course) but neither brand sells new MH's in the quantity of a typical car brand.

Another post mentioned Winnebago has improved the base warranty on MH's; the brochure I have for the 2007 models states the base warranty is 12 months/15,000 miles. Based on the initial cost investment, todays improved build technology, and the far lower miles driven than a car, shouldn't it be a lot better?

And lastly, comparing a MH to a home: my home is worth 2 1/2 times more than I paid for it. My MH? Well, does anything depreciate faster than an RV? Look at the ads for the nicer MH's... two and three year old diesel beauties at a hugely lower price than when purchased new. When I went to Camping World last week, I looked at some new MH's on sale... MSRP was $180-$195k and the sale price was $138k. Even with that kind of mark-down, what are they worth when purchased and driven off the lot for the first time? And what if the units weren't ˜on sale' and you don't negotiate very well? Ouch!

This thread was originally about Winnebago profits, not build quality. Winnebago sales volume is up, though the industry as a whole will probably take a little bit of a beating due to the higher fuel costs. I brought up build quality as an issue, only because all RV manufacturers need to make some big improvements if they want to survive in the long run. Cheap new $14k cars have far better quality control and longer warranties... For most people, buying an RV is a luxury, not a necessity, and is an expensive luxury when you consider initial cost, sales tax, reoccurring costs such as insurance, license fees, storage fees, and huge depreciation.

I simply feel, based on my experience with my 2005 Sightseer, the RV industry needs to improve its build quality and customer satisfaction that we made the right decision in buying an RV...

[ichn2go]

The third post in this thread deals with quality.
I concede defeat. Motorhomes are poorly built pieces of junk and not worth having.

I am thinking about selling mine tomorrow. Good Miles

[DonavonP]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ichn2go:
Motorhomes are poorly built pieces of junk and not worth having.
I am thinking about selling mine tomorrow. Good Miles </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm with you ichn2go. I'm dumping my beater tomorrow too. I got 5 campfires now and nothing to look forward too. Life sucks.

No disrespect intended to any of my friends here on IRV2. You are ALL super.

[Richard 34A]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ichn2go:
The third post in this thread deals with quality.
I concede defeat. Motorhomes are poorly built pieces of junk and not worth having.

I am thinking about selling mine tomorrow. Good Miles </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I'm sure your post is tongue in cheek and hopefully not based on my experience. My reality isn't necessarily someone else's realty; unfortunately for ME, MY Sightseer has been a real dog. But at the same time, even if everyone else has had perfect luck, that shouldn't mean that I can't state the truth about my perspective either.

Looking through the threads on these forums, I know it's not just me, though sometimes it feels like that to me. I didn't even bother to mention in my previous posts that even though the rear pinion gear and bearings were just replaced, something is still wrong and is going back to Workhorse. Nor did I mention that on that repair, they had it for four and a half weeks. And I didn't even mention that between the RV dealer and Workhorse, it's been at those two repair facilities MORE than I've had it home.

It's going to be pretty hard for someone to convince me that the RV industry doesn't have room to improve their build quality, no matter how well their MH has served them, because that's not been the case for me... and certainly hope that others don't have to go through what I've encountered so far...

[Richard 34A]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ichn2go:
The third post in this thread deals with quality.
I concede defeat. Motorhomes are poorly built pieces of junk and not worth having.

I am thinking about selling mine tomorrow. Good Miles </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Okay, okay... I know you're kidding too... you won't really want to sell it when you check out it's resale value. That's what really keeps us all motorhoming, for years to come!

I'm glad everyone here has had a far better experience... after spending almost $90k in cash, I guess I'm jealous that I haven't had the same positive experiences.

The service writer once said that I've had 'a lot of bad luck' with this MH but I don't see 'luck' as the issue, but rather how it was built in the first place. 'Luck' seems to apply more to maybe winning the lotto...